Wes Schaeffer: Nav Pataria, all the way from a park bench in New York to the penthouse -- are you in the penthouse, man? Well, all right, we're going to get to that. But you're moving on up, baby. Welcome to The Sales Podcast. How the heck are you?
Nav Pataria: Wes, being in front of you, I feel ten times richer and ten times happier.
Wes Schaeffer: Hey, and I know that about myself, okay? That's why I made you wait. I can't tell time, so I just made you cool your jets. So thanks for putting up with me. I mean, all these devices I got a computer on Apple Watch, I got an iPhone, and I still can't tell the freaking time. But, hey, I digress, okay?
So I love your story, you were just telling me a little bit and I'm scrolling through here on LinkedIn. You own your own business in the sales training space. You work, though, --just so we can lay the foundation, are you working with companies or like with individual salespeople, helping them get better or both? Like, where's your focus?
Nav Pataria: Love that, Wes. First of all, it's awesome being here live with The Sales Whisperer himself, having a great conversation with my man; hope the family's doing well.
So it's on both sides of the spectrum, Wes. So on one side, we help professional salespeople that have proven to have close at least $1 million dollars in revenue in their career. And now, Wes, they're looking for a change. What could that change be? Maybe they want to get out of corporate for a little bit, work on their own time. Maybe they got some kiddos at the house, and with this pandemic that went by, they're looking for some flexibility. So O help individuals there.
And then on the business owner side, these individuals are doing pretty well in society's eyes. And they're around, let's say, $20K to $40K a month in generating revenue. But they're in that rock and a hard place, Wes, where, dude, if I get off the phones, now nobody's taking calls. But if I stay on, that's the only way I keep this puppy rolling, but now I can't see my kids, I can't take a week, I can't go to the gym, or hit you up in jujitsu on the mats and take on Wes in a jujitsu match, you know?
Wes Schaeffer: Bring it. Bring it.
Nav Pataria: Shit [sic]. How about that Conor McGregor fight, right?
Wes Schaeffer: [chuckles] I didn't even watch it. I saw the highlights. I'm torn on that guy. I mean, as a marketer, I appreciate the the amount of press he can generate. I just -- I don't agree with his methods. And the guy has -- he's got a pretty impressive record of losing lately. But I digress.
Nav Pataria: Yeah, before we go too far into that hellhole, huh.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, my God. I mean, there's a lot to learn from him. I just don't believe that all of it is sincere. It seems like there's a little bit of WWE creeping into the UFC. Maybe I'll get Dana White on one day.
Nav Pataria: There's only one Macho Man Savage [sic], you know?
Wes Schaeffer: Randy -- step into a Slim Jim! [chuckles] Old school, baby. So were you born and raised in New York?
Nav Pataria: Yes, sir. Born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. For all the listeners and for yourself, Wes, I'll do it one time. Fuggedaboudit [sic], okay?
Wes Schaeffer: Forget about it.
Nav Pataria: That's right. Yep.
Wes Schaeffer: You know what I just watched this weekend, was The Godfather.
Nav Pataria: First time? Not the first time.
Wes Schaeffer: No, not the first time, but the first time in probably 30 years. Just haven't watched it -- and so good. It was different than I remember. I love movies, and TV shows you have streaming -- and I'll watch it with -- so check this out. I get it from my library. I got this one right now; I'm re-watching it. "The Last Full Measure." You heard of that?
Nav Pataria: No. Hey, Wes, is that a DVD?
Wes Schaeffer: It's a DVD.
Nav Pataria: Wow. That's like ancient.
Wes Schaeffer: Isn't old school? But you get it from the library for free.
Nav Pataria: Look at that.
Wes Schaeffer: So, I got to watch it at my desk with my iMac because I got this 10-year-old DVD USB player, but this is a true story about [William H.] Pitsenbarger, the first enlisted Air Force guy to win the Medal of Honor in Vietnam.
Nav Pataria: Is he a hero because of your background in the Air Force?
Wes Schaeffer: I didn't even know this guy's story until a year ago. I literally just watched this probably six or eight months ago, and I just wanted to get it again; just a great story. And I love true stories. So, you can get them through the library, so I love it. And with a family, I can't watch anything in the living room, so I got to watch it in my -- usually I'm streaming it on my iPad, but I'll sit here and I'll have IMDB open and I'll pause it. I'm looking people up and now I'm on down the rabbit hole and -- so it takes me a while to watch a movie. But yeah, I love researching "The Godfather." And now I got to watch the whole trilogy because I don't remember the second or third.
Nav Pataria: What was the last time you left that room? It sounds like you've been there for a hot minute.
Wes Schaeffer: Dude, I got a little dumbwaiter here. My wife, they just pass food up the window. Look, man, when COVID hit, that's when I realized I lived the quarantine life. It's like, I got to jujitsu, go to church; I come to this room.
Nav Pataria: That's life.
Wes Schaeffer: Dude, with seven kids, I can't leave this room. It's a hostile environment out there.
Nav Pataria: God bless you. Seven kids and you look like you're 25.
Wes Schaeffer: Man, I'm telling you, they just slip food in, slip water in.
Nav Pataria: [Laughs]
Wes Schaeffer: I just -- but they don't realize I'm in here watching a movie so don't tell them, okay? My wife -- it's so funny. I've done 515 of these, and I think a year ago -- so since 2013, eight years. Less than a year ago, my wife listened to one of them. She's like, hey, that was pretty good. Oh my gosh.
Nav Pataria: By the way, congrats on that, Wes. Hell of a journey, man. Five hundred-plus episodes, I mean --
Wes Schaeffer: It's been a journey.
Nav Pataria: I bet.
Wes Schaeffer: We were talking about you, man. So New York City, huh?
Nav Pataria: Yeah, yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: God bless you. I couldn't do it. We're actually looking for land right now. I love my neighbors; I just don't want to talk to them too often.
Nav Pataria: Join the club, you know.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, yeah. I was saying, I didn't realize I live the quarantine life. I worked from home since 2000; worked for myself from home since 2006. You know, I've been selling remotely for a long time, but you brought up something interesting. So, I mean, you've been in sales your whole career, right?
Nav Pataria: Yes. Honestly, since I was about nine, 10 years old.
Wes Schaeffer: And something you brought up, though, that I do -- I like addressing on these interviews is is getting some insight on selling in this post-COVID world. You can't -- well, I guess you can, to a degree -- you could still hit, press one to dial by name and some are being routed. But still, I mean, people are hard to reach. I've got -- on my iPhone, I've got a setting that's been on since it was released. It blocks unknown calls. So you're not getting through to me unless you -- if you text me, all right, fine; if it's engaging our reply. But you're not just calling me. But I was doing that before when I was still an employee. I didn't just jump on every call. So how are people selling now, at least over the phone?
Nav Pataria: You know. Zoom obviously took off during the pandemic and I'm seeing a lot more -- I'll tell you this. From both of the salespeople side that we introduced them into this high-ticket world and remote world, plus the entrepreneurs themselves, the majority of them that I'm seeing now within our business, Wes, they're using the video, man. It's turning more to video meetings, more to Zooms, blooms --
Wes Schaeffer: But come now. How are you reaching people to set that meeting?
Nav Pataria: Social media, big time. Like for now, Clubhouse, Instagram. So what my team and I do pretty much is we have our pillar platform. We've been building our brand, going live, meeting people like yourself and connecting networks. And then from there, every platform we go to, there's a link in there that's going to contextualize the platform you're on.
So let me digress, Wes. We're different on TikTok; we're different on LinkedIn; we're different on Facebook. We show different sides of ourselves because the context is different on the platforms; but the message, Wes, has to be the same, man.
Wes Schaeffer: True.
Nav Pataria: The mission and passion that we're all about, what wakes up in the morning and drives us is the same. I just have to realize how the heck can I contextualize this to how this person lives on this platform?
So I don't know if that answers the question, but social media been pretty big for our purposes and for entrepreneurs we partner with. It's good ol' email marketing, Facebook ads, Facebook groups; not much cold calling from what I'm seeing right now.
Wes Schaeffer: So are -- C-level executives, are you reaching them through Clubhouse?
Nav Pataria: Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Interesting. Because Clubhouse blew up and now, like, I literally haven't heard anything about it in six weeks, at least.
Nav Pataria: Wes, you're on Clubhouse -- are you?
Wes Schaeffer: I'm on it. I haven't logged into it in months.
Nav Pataria: Gotcha. Well, you just got a new follower, brother.
Wes Schaeffer: [chuckles] It's going to be crickets. You better you better text me or something.
So I remember Clubhouse popped up, and somebody, this friend of mine I know in Austin, she invited me and I accepted it. And I remember it was a Saturday. I was driving to the library on the way to jujitsu and my phone rings and it's her. I answer and I hear her talking, but I'm like, hey, hello, hello. I thought maybe she butt dialed me, right? And next thing I know, I'm in this Clubhouse -- like, it was the first time I've been on a call. I'm on this group call; she's asking me questions in front of a live audience.
I'm driving down the road, I'm like, what the hell is going on? I don't -- like, I was so confused, you know? And then so I've kind of figured it out. I sat on a couple of calls; I hosted a couple just to see how it works. But I don't know, man. Maybe I'm missing a gold mine there. Should I spend more time on Clubhouse,
Nav Pataria: In my opinion, yeah. And your voice, what you stand for, what you're all about, it's game, set and match, honestly.
Wes Schaeffer: And if I don't have a big following yet, you just start? If you build it, they will come?
Nav Pataria: Not only -- "Field of Dreams" -- so you don't have to pull a Shoeless Joe Jackson and come out of the freakin' corn maze and build this thing. All it takes is a couple of rooms. So Wes, let's say I pop in the room -- we both pop in the room. There's moderators that run the rooms in the clubs. If you're following someone else that follows that person, you have the "in" to get on the stage -- and then once again, Wes, to my point earlier, contextualize the message of the platform.
So you might sneak in something like this. "Hey, Wes, thanks for bringing me up on stage. I truly appreciate it. Love the vibe in the room. And as I've been helping 80-plus businesses hit $1 million-plus run rate so they can shift from solopreneurship to real entrepreneurship -- bam, quick little value prop, your little pitch -- but then you go into the segue, which is the question, so this way you don't take up somebody's aura in the room, because it's their thing. And then from there you start building it.
And I'm seeing C-level execs, I'm seeing entrepreneurs -- we connect off of there onto Instagram, the Facebooks, and it's a beautiful thing. Like literally my DMs are popping off. It's awesome. I'm making new friendships, new relationships. I'm introducing so-and-so to Wes Schaeffer; and during the pandemic, it really helped us sustain where we were and where we want it to be, because we all have goals to our different quarters and we just couldn't rely any more on the phone call method because of relationships you could build right here. That dynamic, it's so different. So when you get into your pitch, into your deal, that aura's already built, if that makes sense.
Wes Schaeffer: So you're saying you don't have to start your own; you're saying get to know someone, be invited; shine when you get your moment and build your followers from there.
Nav Pataria: Yeah, number one. And number 1A, pretty much you can add to that, Wes, is we got -- let's say, you have a, which you do, solid following on the Facebooks, the Instagrams, the LinkedIns. It's like an ecosystem. Direct that audience into hey, gang, your boy Wes is hopping on it to Clubhouse. Let's shoot the stuff. And then boom, they pop in and then you start like cross-pollinating and things got really fun at that point.
Wes Schaeffer: And so do you have a clear-cut offer where you want to send people or is your angle just to strike up conversations and see where they go? Are you very prescriptive and methodical, or is it more feel-good, kind of go with the flow, let's see what happens?
Nav Pataria: Yeah, that's excellent. A little bit of both, and this is what I mean. For example, me, like before our awesome interview, I was in there doing my thing -- awareness, relationships. And when you're in somebody else's room or club, I'm providing -- and here's another thing, Wes. I want to give my mindset on this -- value.
I feel like a lot of folks get that play wrong where they think they're providing value when they reach out to you, but the intent shows that it's only for their benefit.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, yeah, all the time.
Nav Pataria: You probably get that all the time.
Wes Schaeffer: Ninety-nine percent.
Nav Pataria: Exactamundo. So the fact that we don't do that --
Wes Schaeffer: Hey, don't use that New York City lingo with me.
Nav Pataria: Come on man, forget about it [sic]. Okay? Okay? Okay? [chuckles] But Wes, so like when you pop into somebody's room or club, you hang out for a hot minute, you feel the vibe, what are we talking about, what questions have been answered? What's the title of the room? I'll wait a couple of minutes, then I'll raise my hand. They bring you onstage. So this way you're once again contextualizing your message based on what they're talking about. From there, like for like with the moderators. And then here's the key, Wes. Someone like you, honestly, they would crush it; this is what I mean.
Let's say you're in a room with myself. I go on stage; I see you're in the room, Wes, I give you a shout out, you know? Let's say we're in a sales room, right? We're talking about handling objections. I throw my quick New York spin on how to handle -- whatever. "You know, I see someone in the room here, Mr. So-and-so, who I'm an admirer from afar. I'm getting to know in a better way, hopefully a little longer. It's The Sales Whisperer himself, I think we should have him on and see what he says." Boom. And that, we'll take it to the next step.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, interesting. So I do that. I wow them with my Whispering wisdom.
Nav Pataria: Yeah, yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: And so then I start to get some followers. I mean, are you using, like, a link tree or something, driving them to a landing page, or are you more direct saying, all right, fools, I'm doing a launch, go sign up?
Nav Pataria: Depends on your goals. You know, depends on your personal goals, what you're trying to do right now.
Wes Schaeffer: I have kids to feed. They need to sign up. They need to sign up their whole family, their whole company; you know what I'm saying? The whole continent.
Nav Pataria: So something that's entry-level, what I'm seeing a lot right now on that platform particularly, Wes, anything below -- $300 could even be a stretch -- like anything below $300, $400, that you make an offer to the audience, that's like the bar I'm seeing in a lot of these rooms. And then you direct them to your Instagram link or you put the link in your bio on Clubhouse -- boom, baby. Then they start piling in.
Wes Schaeffer: Why Instagram?
Nav Pataria: Well, that's how you could continue the conversation off of Clubhouse, because right now on Clubhouse, you can only pop in your Twitter and Instagram handles in your bio, because you can't communicate with people one-on-one on Clubhouse.
And that's where I met a good chunk of our new clients. We're seeing a change in the way people communicate, and people want that non-corporate vibe. That's what I'm sensing, Wes, the non-corporate vibe. And once they feel that connect, then we could talk about -- let's talk about how we could scale your sales and get you off the phones within 60 to 90 days or even earlier. And then, boom, it just kind of goes from that point, you know?
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. So how long have you been doing this? Because you mentioned that number of 80 and that's a specific number. How long has it taken you to get where you are once you went out on your own?
Nav Pataria: Yeah. So it's been a little over six years now since Mike and I started this whole shebang with a couple other guys on the team -- love them all to death. And just like any story in the beginning, you don't know what you don't know. And in the last two to three years, it's really starting to take off. And just like any entrepreneurship story, Wes; you probably know it better than any one man. I mean, just like jujitsu -- you don't get that blackbelt the first day, right? Conor doesn't break his leg -- I shouldn't bring that up again -- on the first --
Wes Schaeffer: That was terrible.
Nav Pataria: It was horrible.
Wes Schaeffer: More and guys are doing that. I'm like, okay, I'm not kicking anybody. If I do, I'm going to kick him with my heel, man. That's horrible.
Nav Pataria: I'll be honest. I thought something was wrong with my TV or somebody put something in my drink that night when I'm watching this fight. I'm like, dude, what the heck -- what did I just see?
Wes Schaeffer: I just saw the replay and it was funny. I saw Joe Rogan -- and his mom pointed it out. Poirier, blocked -- looked like his elbow. He blocked it. I think that's what broke that chin.
Nav Pataria: That's a jacked elbow. Thing's made of concrete, man.
Wes Schaeffer: There's this guy we roll with. He's a black belt now, just retired Marine. We laugh -- like everybody knows everything about everybody, because when you're that close for many years -- he's got the pointiest elbows in the world. Like, you don't want DJ's elbow to hit your sternum, man. It'd probably cut you. But I digress again. So, all right. Where were we?
Nav Pataria: I don't know. I mean, we're having a good time, Wes, you know?
But yeah, man, a little over six years now, and most of these folks, like I said, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. So who are these people that we're able to help? High-ticket coaches, consultants, agency owners, coaches; course creators. They use the online space to do their thing.
But once again, man, we talk a lot over here about the four phases of scaling. Usually these folks are an army of one, Wes. They're friggin' doing everything, man. They're wearing every single hat in their business because they have to. And by the way, I'd love to get your take on this, Wes. We honestly believe in order for you to delegate a process or a system in your business, you need to know at least a little something on it so if that person doesn't cut the mustard, you could jump back in or else you're regressing again.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah.
Nav Pataria: What are your thoughts on that?
Wes Schaeffer: I know. Well, like we said in the military, you can delegate authority, but you can't delegate responsibility.
Nav Pataria: I like that.
Wes Schaeffer: I can tell you, hey, go go build this out. But I own it. If it doesn't work, okay -- you were drunk or you didn't have the right training or whatever, okay, it's your fault. But I was the one that gave it to you. I was the one who didn't expect you. So absolutely. I deal with this all the time.
I'm getting sideways right now with a longtime friend of mine that hired me to help with a launch, and she is washing her hands of it and hired an admin that knows nothing about Infusionsoft to do some of the work and things are breaking. And she's hot in my butt. And I go in and I look, I'm like, the assistants you hired doesn't know and clicked the wrong button. She's like, "But I don't -- just fix it." Like, okay. If she wasn't a friend, I wouldn't fix it.
Nav Pataria: Yeah. I was about to say.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, yeah. But I digress again. You can't just wash your hands of it.
Nav Pataria: Exactly.
Wes Schaeffer: You need to understand because she doesn't want to have to pay a high-dollar person all the time for launches. But when you go cheap, somebody breaks it, you've got to know enough and then train -- let me do it, let me build it out and hand it over, teach y'all; then you can run it on your own. You've got to own some of it.
Nav Pataria: Exactly.
Wes Schaeffer: And it's tough, though. There's a lot of things to know and to own. So you have to pick your battles sometimes. But this is the machine that's making the money. You better know that machine at least a little bit.
Nav Pataria: Friggin' A, man. And you know what the juxtaposition is also, Wes, is --
Wes Schaeffer: Is that a big New York -- I got to Google that, man. Golly - juxtaposition?
Nav Pataria: You like that, huh?
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, my gosh. One of them hifalutin' -- that's what we call one of them two-dollar words, man.
Nav Pataria: Folks, I am spittin' on the podcast of my man, Wes. Am I spittin', Wes, or what?
Wes Schaeffer: Jux-ta-position --
Nav Pataria: That's right, baby.
Wes Schaeffer: Okay. All right. I never won a spelling bee, but I could throw them out there, you know? [chuckles]
So Wes, to your point man, I think it's very important. It's like most of these folks that we work with, they've worked so freaking hard to bring the business to where they're at now. They're doing well, once again in society's eyes. Here's the problem that I bump into all the time, Wes; love to hear your thoughts on this. "Hey, Nav, man," or to our team, "Hey, guys, I don't feel comfortable relinquishing control of my sales calls, my process, because I don't think that this person will understand how to sell my product or offer." Okay, why is that, Mr. So-and-so? "Well, man, here's the thing. I have spent so much time, money and energy -- I have spent so much time, money and energy -- to get to this point, I need to be -- I can't let go, man. I need to be on top of it.
And it's funny. The one thing that's stopping them from really blowing the doors out of the business so they actually get the time and the money and the spiritual fulfillment that most for going to entrepreneurship in the first place, they're holding themselves back because of something in their mind that tells them I am the best person for this job.
And over here, coaching sales, the one thing I always try to drill in the nice, positive way when we speak with someone new is, "Look, dude or dudette, it's not about control, dude. It's not about control. It's more about leadership versus management. Are you a mom or are you a coach?" You know, your business is your kid. Hell, Wes, you have seven kids, man. Imagine if you had sev- -- well, you probably do, okay, more than that -- seven businesses, man. You're raising a child. At some point, man, you got to let go the diapers and training wheels and let your kid grow the hell up and you can focus on really expanding this thing and take yourself out, because you're being the bottleneck.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. You know, it's true that nobody can do it as well as they can; but the other truth is, it's the 80/20 rule -- probably the 90/10 rule. Only 90 percent of the time does it have to be done as well as they can. You know, so train some people up, set them loose. Yeah, they'll miss a few.
Nav Pataria: Yeah. Part of the game.
Wes Schaeffer: But when a when a brand new person comes to visit our school in Jiu-Jitsu, we don't have to put a black belt on them to whip their butts, you know? Put a nice mid-level blue belt and they'll tune up anybody that comes in.
Nav Pataria: Tune them up, man, I love that. Tune them up.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, so -- yeah, you get some big stud -- and they usually, though, they don't tell the whole truth. "Oh, no, I've never trained." Yeah, they never trained jujitsu. But they competed D1 or high-level high school wrestling; oh, and they're a Marine where they do teach essentially jujitsu, they just don't get ranks, they teach self-defense and and attacking. So yeah, so they're not lying because they haven't been in a jujitsu school, but they've trained. So yeah, they might embarrass a lower-ranked guy. But that's so rare -- so rare. It's not even worth worrying about.
Nav Pataria: It really isn't. And by the way, if the entrepreneur can't sell their own offer -- you know, it's like somebody telling someone -- and nobody's ever going to do this -- who's going to walk up to somebody, say, "Dude, you have an ugly baby." You know, it might just be, dude, you have an ugly baby; that's why nobody wants your offer.
But once it starts cooking, now we need to realize, even though you bring somebody on board to scale your sales up so you're free up your time to do other things, another big blockade-sort of-speak in their mentality that we overcome is, "Hey, Wes, you have to understand, man, that these people may not close at or above what you are doing because you're the face. You have this natural authority and posture to your brand, right?" Because if I speak to the man Wes Schaeffer man on a call about any of the offers, there's a natural posture and authority you have then if I speak to a salesperson on your team.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. Sure. Gotta be willing to lose a few in order to grow. And it's hard. It's hard to get people to let go.
I mean, so did you convince and persuade them or do you let them go and just move on to the next, those that see the value?
Nav Pataria: Now, that's curious. Why would someone in your position West, be okay with letting a few go when you're ramping up and training a new salesperson?
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, you're going -- if you're training someone up and you're letting them take some of the calls, you're going to lose some sales. That's just how it is, you know?
Nav Pataria: How do you make peace with that personally, Wes? I'm kind of curious?
Wes Schaeffer: But the reality is, the more I think about it, let's say my ability -- let's say I can handle, I can personally close 10 deals a week, whatever they are, maybe it's a bigger sale. And I'm also not selling all the time. So I'm closing 10 deals, at a 95 percent rate. So I mean 11 calls, close 10. Fantastic. I'm a killer.
But I hire two salespeople and they sell full-time, now instead of 11 calls, each of them can field 40 calls. You know, so now we have 80 at-bats and maybe they're brand new, they're 70 percent as effective on day one. So I'm losing 30 percent of 80. So all right, from percentage wise, I mean, that looks terrible. But on day one, these guys that first week, 70 percent of 80, that's 56 deals, compared to 10 I closed on my own. Is that a failure? And on the second week, they're closing 75 percent; third week they're closing 80. So they'll never be in my 99 percent. They'll be at 90 -- good ones will be 92 percent, right?
So, I mean, all right, I'll take that. But yeah, it's hard. Some people don't want to let go, man.
Nav Pataria: And by the way, and during that time, where they're doing their thing -- to your point man, they're scaling it. They're closing. They're growing. How would someone in your position use that free time you got back now in your personal and professional life? Like, where else would you be working your business? Because I think it's a really huge point.
Wes Schaeffer: I'd be getting more DVDs, man.
Nav Pataria: And there you go, baby, folks. Folks, go back into the archives; you used to watch things called DVDs, okay -- [chuckles]
Wes Schaeffer: I almost asked the librarian yesterday. I'm like, what's going to happen? Because it's like -- I'm just lucky that I still had this old DVD USB player sitting around the house, because I don't remember --
Nav Pataria: I'm shocked there's still libraries around, Wes. I was like, dude, a library. What's that?
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, I love it. I've probably upwards of 60 or 70 books since COVID started.
Nav Pataria: Good stuff.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. And I still buy them. I got them all over. But yea, man. Have a life. I think people, maybe they're waking up, maybe COVID help some wake up. I hope they stay awake -- that the hustle is not really all that sexy.
Nav Pataria: What do you mean by that?
Wes Schaeffer: I live a pretty chilled life. I could have more money, but I turn down a lot of stuff. It's like, I do podcasts on Mondays and Tuesdays. I don't take calls on Fridays. I mean, it's like, I'm not grinding because I want to live. I think we've been sold a bill of goods. First, it was climbing the corporate ladder and now it's the hustle. I think people forgot how to live. I think COVID reminded people, oh, yeah, I don't have to commute, 90 minutes, two hours every day; oh, I can be home for dinner. Whoa, this is what it's like. I put my kids to bed? Holy smokes. How unique. You know?
Nav Pataria: You mean I don't have to take the subway into Manhattan? Okay, cool.
Wes Schaeffer: Dude, yeah. God bless you. I guess somebody's got to do it, right?
Nav Pataria: Hey, I used to, you know?
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, it's like, learn to live. I think we're afraid to live. We want to accumulate; that's how you keep score. Oh, look, I've got a newer car than you. Okay, good.
Nav Pataria: And Wes, let me ask you something on this. I'm really curious about this. For you to get to that place in your life, I bet you that you had to have some systems and processes in place so you don't have to, like, worry or dwell so much on what if this happens or that happens because you friggin' work, man, to put that stuff in order.
Wes Schaeffer: I did work hard. Yeah, I worked hard. I learned Infusionsoft. I learned Ontraport. I learned Nimble; learned HubSpot. I've written two books. I've done almost 600 podcast interviews. I've got content. You know, I've got, I don't know, 1200 pages on my website. I've written 98 percent of them.
Now, I don't have to create a bunch of new content. The podcast -- go back to old articles, I'll update them, I'll cross-reference, but it's easier to update something than to build it from scratch. So there was a lot of work building that. It's a little bit of work maintaining it, but it's easier to maintain than to build. But there's so many people -- and I appreciate that others, I don't know, they're driven differently and they want to build this big kingdom or whatever -- empire. Okay, knock yourself out. I think I just have a different calling. So at least I can give people an option, a glimpse into an alternate universe where you can just hang out in a t-shirt, shorts, go train, do -- I mean, yeah, I do this interview, one more interview; go to jujitsu, leave at 11:30, get back about 2:00; shower; I'll eat.
You know, I work in the afternoon after that, but I'll take three hours in the middle of the day to go do what I want to do. I get up early, I get up about 5:15, so I'll do some work in the morning and do some reading, some writing. I'm not taking calls until I want to. So it's possible. I think, to me people, they don't see enough examples, I guess. It's all just hustle and grind your face off. No.
Now I have to go learn Clubhouse, all right. You'll see me grinding again. [chuckles]
Nav Pataria: Oh God.
Wes Schaeffer: That's cool. So you talk about 80 companies, like I said; you were very specific with that. But do you have programs just for individuals, group training or on-demand training; or do you focus on taking them and building up that bigger company, a bigger presence?
Nav Pataria: Yeah. So what I like to say at times, it's like a consultancy, but with the added benefit of of being a long-term partner. So what do I mean by this? So we might meet someone that is just starting off on journey. They're doing their own lead gen; could be outbound stuff on LinkedIn, email marketing, what have you. Once again, they're the army of one, right? Or we have someone, Wes, that we bump heads with -- in a good way, by the way -- that maybe they have a few people on the staff. They've got a VA, they've got a center; they have a salesperson on the team. But now they're at a situation where what process am I missing? What am I not seeing to actually take this to the next step?
I start delegating some stuff in the day-to-day. So when I say 80-plus businesses, this is the makeup of these individuals, right? They got into their business because they wanted the time, freedom, the flexibility, but they have a product or service that they're so friggin' passionate about that they jump in -- and these people are -- I love them all to death. They're following all the gurus. They're getting all the nuggets. They've set up their funnels. They've got a CRM -- by the way, shout out to you and your CRM podcast, okay -- they've got a CRM, okay? They got a phone system. They've got the Zooms of the world.
This is where they hit up coaching sales. "Hey, guys, I'm doing X amount. My notion rate's pretty bearable; my show-up rates are solid. I just don't have the time for you to start working on my marketing, Wes. I can't work on my branding, Wes. My fulfillment's breaking apart, Wes. Wes, what do I do, dude?"
Well, number one is we need to figure out which salesperson, what's their makeup that's going to fit the ideal mold that you need. Because if they don't understand your market, they don't understand the emotional journey of the buyer -- we're also going to help train them to make sure it fits. Because if those abstract factors, Wes, aren't in place, it's going to be a long learning curve for these closers. Now, they've already closed in their career, so they know sales; they know the fundamentals. Their learning curve, Wes, is going to be how do I sell this product? Do you understand the client avatar? Do you understand the story? Do you understand how to pitch this deal? Because maybe you come from a finance background, but this person coaches people on how to find love in their life.
Wes Schaeffer: Just swipe right, swipe left, right?
Nav Pataria: Like on a dating app?
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. Isn't that how everybody finds love now?
Nav Pataria: I mean, I think so, yeah. If you're a lucky one, they'll swipe up for you, you know?
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, it's up, now? It's not left or right?
Nav Pataria: That's like a super-duper -- like that's like the first time you saw your wife, you're like, yep. Super up, you know?
Wes Schaeffer: I got you. This whole swiping thing -- the only swiping I know is what's the one -- Dora the Explorer. I think -- who's swiping?
Nav Pataria: So your kids are young then, right? Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: I still got a seven-year-old at home, man.
Nav Pataria: There you go.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh my gosh.
Nav Pataria: It's hilarious.
Wes Schaeffer: [chuckles] They say, you know why you have kids when you're young; because it's work. [chuckles]
So that's cool. So you get in their heads, help them -- I mean, yeah. You need systems; you need processes. I did some writing for Infusionsoft back in the day and I came up with the automate-integrate-dominate.
Nav Pataria: I like that, man.
Wes Schaeffer: And then celebrate.
Nav Pataria: Best part.
Wes Schaeffer: And after doing this long enough, I've earned the right to yell back at prospects. You know, "It's just too hard -- it's 'confusionsoft.'" Like, no, you don't have any processes. It's all in your brain. You're winging it. You react. I'm trying to get you to put something on paper and you can't, and you want to blame you to pass the buck. I'm like, no, suck it up, buttercup. This is on you.
Nav Pataria: That was good rhyming, by the way.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. It's like Michael Dell was building computers in his dorm at the University of Texas. Could he have built this business if he didn't take some lumps and figure out how to automate some things, create some processes? You know, we take things for granted, right? I mean, a pen. I love those shows, "How It's Made." To build a paper clip --
Nav Pataria: Great show.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. Go watch how it is to build a paper clip. I mean, it's something you -- you throw it away without even thinking twice about it. They're got to get the right type of metal. They heat it. It's stretched. It's cut. It's wrapped -- a certain amount of pressure. What is the the the bandwidth, the diameter of the device that's spinning it? I mean, then you got to dump it and you've got to sort it and you've got to box it. I mean, somebody's got to invent each -- they got to design every step of that thing now. And we just throw it away. We just take it for granted.
But then when you're forced to do it, oh, this is too hard; this is too expensive. Well, what's the alternative, buddy? You know? Good luck with that. So you help them do that, huh?
Nav Pataria: Big time. One of the number one mindset shifts, I'd say, that happens in the beginning of a relationship with a client of ours, Wes, is it's not about your gut feeling, man. Meaning, we introduce them to up to six candidates. After we go through hundreds of candidates, we end up with six through a very detailed vetting process to introduce them to you.
The biggest thing that I deal with in the beginning and our team does, Wes, with our clients, is "I feel like this person seems like they might be the best. This person might not work out." And it's like, well, let's look at it from a different perspective. You know, I can't tell you, Wes, how many times -- it's like I'm in Vegas. I'm done. I'm done betting on who I think from this round for this client of ours is going to crush it and be the ultimate winning salesperson during the trial phase, which I'll get to in a minute.
And it's never the person, Wes, that the client thought might be the winner because they led with their gut. But with sales, especially with bringing people in to offer, man, you've got to let the numbers speak, man. You got to let the numbers speak. And we call it the ramp up and calibration phase, Wes. What we've seen from our data, it takes about 30 to 45, 50 days to really find out through enough calls which person is getting better with the learning curve with this offer, and the metrics are telling us who's going to end up being the winner.
And it kind of plays in both sides because it gives the client, our business partners, the confidence to understand all this person is somebody I could bank on. Why? You have proof, bro. For the salespeople, when they go through the dips, Wes, during the trial phase and when we find the ultimate winner for our client, now they understand the power of numbers, man.
Wes, how many times I've me, you and everybody listening to this, gone through a dip in sales? We all have. And the first thing I ask people when they reach out to our team, hey, I don't think I could close a frigging door, dude; I suck. I'm like, got you, man. Hey, listen, let me ask you a question. Look at your metrics that we actually help set up with the entire system in process, so the entrepreneurs don't have to worry about a freakin' thing on tracking and call reviews and all that good stuff.
Dude, or dudette, okay, pull up your sales stats for the last 14 to 21 days. Wes, you know what's crazy, man, I can't tell you how many times they pull up their numbers, they're within KPI, they're above KPI, so they get into their friggin' mind, oh man, I'm playing myself; I'm just going through the law of averages. And you know what's funny, Wes? Most of the time, man, it's something personal. They're getting stuck in their own way, but not realizing dude, two weeks ago, you were closing everybody and their mom.
So it's these type of conversations that we have all the time with entrepreneurs and closers to help both parties realize what's going on, because the last thing I need people doing, Wes, is saying, hey, guys, should we like -- should we mess up our marketing and change things up? Should we start targeting different people? Hey, Nav, hey, Wes, could it be the Facebook Pixel? Shit, man, should I go on Clubhouse? Is my fulfillment jacked? Do have offer fatigue?
And before we start jumping to different areas, we want to bring them down to earth and say, listen, Broheim and Broette, let the data speak, bro. Let's look at the data. And most solopreneurs, I say, when they come into our world, Wes, they don't track the numbers too much. Why? I don't blame them, dude. You're a one-man army, man. Are you going to track data? Are you going to worry about getting more sales coming in and where's your lead from?
Kind of went on a tangent, but I think it's really, really important, Wes, to really understand what's important when people start scaling their business.
Wes Schaeffer: We see it all the time. We never guess anymore who's going to stick it out in jujitsu. You show up each day, see who's there.
Nav Pataria: That's a good one.
Wes Schaeffer: You know? Then a guy shows up like, oh hell, I haven't seen you in a year, where you've been? Others just never come back. You know, a lot of guys, they'll get their blue belt and they they feel accomplished and they never come back. Other guys are gung ho. I mean, it takes a lot out of you. It's a lot of effort. You know, selling is a lot of effort. Building a business --
Nav Pataria: A lot.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, it's hard. I mean, for a man, starting a business is the closest thing to having a child.
Nav Pataria: Hundred percent.
Wes Schaeffer: That experience, right? We build it. We nurture it. We lose sleep over it. It's stressful. Sometimes you don't like it. You can't just throw it away, though.
Nav Pataria: Or you're watching Dora with them. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: It's tough, I know. After "I'm a little teapot." Oh, if I ever see a purple dinosaur, just -- [chuckles] Oh my gosh. Now, like my daughter, she's walking around with an iPad, my Bose headset. I mean my son's like, what the heck, dad? I'm 51, dude, I need a break.
Nav Pataria: Are you really?
Wes Schaeffer: Like, give her the car keys -- she's seven, she can't drive. Just let her drive; I just need a break, man. [chuckles] Oh, yeah.
Nav Pataria: God bless you. You look great for 51. I would never have guessed.
Wes Schaeffer: 1992, right there, baby, USAFA, back in the day. All right, man. I've got one more interview, but we need to send people -- you made a website for our listeners, didn't you?
Nav Pataria: Yes. I did. For all the Sales Whispers and Whisperettes that are going through this.
Now, if you're in that bucket that we've been talking about today, folks, you're someone right now who, you're doing pretty okay; $200K, $400K, right around there per year. But, this is the goddamn truth -- okay, I hope the Lord forgives me for saying damn, all right, folks -- if you're doing that type of revenue, I guarantee you one of these or a couple of them, you're going through, you're locked down to your friggin' desk. You're taking all the sales calls, you're booking them all, maybe even handling fulfillment, okay, you're doing that on them and you're wondering if I get off the phones. Cash ain't coming in. If I stay on the phones, I don't get to really live the way I want, and that's the first reason you've gone into business in the first place people. Let's be real, okay?
Now, if you've hired salespeople in the past and it didn't work out, this potentially might be for you. If you haven't yet and you're like, dude, where the hell do I begin, man? Where do I find good people? Like, how to interview them? How do I train them? How do I manage them ongoing? How do I know they're going to work out or not. Shit, when do I know to scale, dude? When do I know I have the right people -- now what do I focus? What's my next bottleneck going to be?
If all that's running through your mind, we made a special blueprint for you guys, for all as listeners at CoachingSales.com/Wes. You're going to see my handsome mug pop up on that beautiful screen, and you're going to get the blueprint. Wes, you won't believe this, dude. It's a very thorough, detailed blueprint; multiple chapters. It's everything we've learned as a company on scaling not only our business, but the 80-plus entrepreneurs who helped us well, on everything it takes, gang, from finding the right people, vetting them, train them, letting them rip, and then do what the hell do you do after that. Because now you've gotten rid of that bottleneck; you probably don't even know what your next bottlenecks are.
So you're going to have that entire blueprint with you, along with the ATM system, which is "attract, train and manage." That's going to break it down to very simple steps for you guys.
So once again, you go to that link. You see my handsome mug, you're going to pop your email so I know where to send this out to you and then be a student, baby. Like Wes, go to the library, okay? Read that thing in detail; start putting it to use. And outside of that, you'll also have the opportunity to join our private Facebook group where we drop additional content nuggets; because, Wes, you know what's going to happen? You're going to have this blueprint in front of you. It's like, dude, I got the blueprint to build a house. What hammers, what nails, what saws am I using, what kind of lumber?
In that Facebook group we drop daily content and additional resources for all entrepreneurs just like you there in there, so you get the context of the content, folks, so you know how to apply the stuff and really get this thing ripping.
And that's pretty much it, Wes, in terms of how they can start implementing a lot of this stuff, without feeling feel like they have to figure it out on their own.
Wes Schaeffer: I want to see you at the library, man. I want to see a selfie of you at the library.
Nav Pataria: They'll kick me out because I'm on the social media apps, you know what I mean? So they're going to be like, dude, get out.
Wes Schaeffer: "You can't do Clubhouse in the library."
Nav Pataria: "Stop TikTok-ing, fool, okay?"
Wes Schaeffer: [chuckles] Okay, very nice. All right. Well, we are linking out to that. I appreciate it. If you head west, man, come look me up. So I'm probably not going east; I'm just being honest, okay?
Nav Pataria: I mean, we've got the best pizza in the world, I don't know what you're doing nothing? Nothing quiets kids up like a good Brooklyn slice.
Wes Schaeffer: [chuckles] I agree. All right, maybe I'll come out. All right, we'll go to the library, we'll get some pizza. You can show me the park bench you were sleeping on.
Nav Pataria: Yeah, a couple of them.
Wes Schaeffer: We're going to make it a national historic site and it'll be awesome.
Nav Pataria: Yeah, man.
Wes Schaeffer: Cool, man. Well, thanks for coming on the show. It's been awesome.
Nav Pataria: Heck, yeah, Wes. Appreciate it, buddy. Love you. Thank you.
Wes Schaeffer: All right. Have a great day. Go sell something.
Nav Pataria: That's right.