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Business Leadership Is Bold and Win With Sean Castrina

Start with the assumption and plan to win

Click here to download the episode. 


Leadership Skills you'll learn today on The Sales Podcast...

  • If you're going to take a position, take a bold one
  • Bought a business plan from Amazon from his son who was getting started but they were all bad
  • All the business plan books were fantasy
  • No one can tell you how much money you're going to make in your business


  • If my business plan can knock you out then the market really will
  • Micro-start your business
  • Do not quit your day job
  • Beta test your business
I'm going to win, of course. (If you're going to take a position, take a bold one.)"
  • Build a business you want to keep
  • If you can't pivot you may not survive
  • If you have more money going out than coming in and you don't know when it's going to stop...you may not make it
  • How to know when to call it a day
    • When nobody wants what you have to sell
    • When you don't know how to market to them
    • When people won't pay the price you need to sell it to be profitable
  • He gets a daily spreadsheet that shows all of his key metrics
  • You need a dashboard to see blips vs. trends vs. sustained trends
  • A startup is like flying a kite: any little gust can bring it down
  • "If you meet with your accountant every three months I know you're going to have problems."
  • Focus on the fundamentals. Do you have what your customers want?
  • Annual practice
    • War Game Scenario: what can put you out of business? (Build a moat around your business.)
    • Always add a new profit stream
You better be competitive."
  • It really is a mindset
  • Are you an entrepreneur or a business owner with a couple of entrepreneurial moments?
  • What makes you happy? Is it profitable?
  • Hire who you really need, that one critical hire that moves the needle
  • Start with sales
  • Don't try to save money or hire family
  • Maybe sign off on each job at first
  • Be a good mentor for a bit to grow
  • You gotta have a few "yous"
  • Your #1 job as a business owner
  • Sell them on the future
  • Staffing was key to his growth
  • He made the sacrifice to hire great people from his own profit
  • 1 + 1 = Done
  • He doesn't want another entrepreneur. He wants an analytical person who will eat, sleep, and drink this work.
  • They are an industry expert and will make great money
  • Your people must know there is extraordinary oversight to remove the temptation to steal
  • He teaches his partners how to hire
  • They can't hire "7's." They're either a six or an eight.
  • He does a 50/50 partnership in the profits but not the stock
  • He always does 50/50 because without him there would be no company
  • If asses don't move when you talk, you're not a leader
  • Your social media efforts are all for vanity if it doesn't make you money (See Why Social Media Gooroos Are Broke!)

Links Mentioned In The Sales Podcast



Wes Schaeffer: Sean Castrina, three time author, 15x entrepreneur.
Sean Castrina: More than 20 I just say Sean cast Rena author and entrepreneur. There you go.
Wes Schaeffer: How so go all the way from Charlottesville, man.
Sean Castrina: Man.
Wes Schaeffer: The sales pocket taking control right from the beginning. I'm not sure if I like that or not, we're gonna we're gonna figure this out, though, as we got can always hit Delete. Right.
Wes Schaeffer: So what's going on, man? It's a man it's past beer 30 for you and you're on the show. So I appreciate you taking the time.
Sean Castrina: Hey, now I'm looking forward to it.
Wes Schaeffer: So I just drop this in right from the beginning, eight unbreakable rules for business startup success, we're linking to that.
Wes Schaeffer: The greatest entrepreneur in the world. The seven the tale of seven pillars surviving startup to becoming the giant. So I like that. And the world's greatest business plan that works.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, the secret to it that that's what makes my business plan book a little different. Yeah, I mean having one that works. I guess that's better than just having a business plan. Hmm.
Sean Castrina: I think so.
Wes Schaeffer: So what the heck, man, what
Wes Schaeffer: Who died and made you came to write something called the greatest business plan, the greatest on what I mean.
Sean Castrina: Come on, you know, if you're going to take a position. Always take a bold one
Sean Castrina: Because then you got to live up to it. So that's always been. I'm a former Division one athlete. So I just remember people would always say like
Sean Castrina: What are you going to do in your match this weekend because I was a college wrestler. And I go, Well, I'm gonna win. Of course matter who it was against because you know you gotta, you gotta build up the height.
Sean Castrina: But you know the business plan book I my son, he was graduating from high school and he was starting a business, and actually it's doing really well.
Sean Castrina: And I wanted him to go through a business plan. So, you know, I just bought one from Amazon like every other human being like business plan for dummies. I mean, I had my what I normally do.
Sean Castrina: But I wanted him to go through the exercise of it you know 20 some years into it. I have a very abbreviated thing that i i look at
Sean Castrina: And I buy one book and one was worse than the next. They were fantasies. They were like 350 pages they had financial projections that were total fantasy. Nobody can tell you what your company is going to make. Let me just
Sean Castrina: Tell you that right away and probably the biggest problem I have with the business plan books out there and why I wrote, mine is. In chapter a
Sean Castrina: Chapter one, you know, Susie has this great idea for business Susie as business, you know, business, a
Sean Castrina: In chapter 15 Susie's business doing great. She has the perfect culture, she's given to philanthropy, she you know it is the world's greatest visit, they got money in reserves.
Sean Castrina: Like they've reverse engineer the business plan with it working. See Chapter 15 they've already made the assumption, it's going to work.
Sean Castrina: Well, the statistics tell me nine out of 10 will not make it to your 10 I've had three companies make it to your 20
Sean Castrina: So I do feel like I kind of know what it takes to build a sustainable durable business and I find these business books are just their fantasies. They reverse engineer the math.
Sean Castrina: So the financial projection is whatever you needed to pay your bills is their financial projection. I have never yet in over 20 companies had one do as well as I thought it would do.
Sean Castrina: Never and I've never and I've had ones. You know that were exceeded beyond, you know, it's kind of like I've never had anything kind of what I thought. Either they did way more than I ever expected and that was a pleasant surprise or they just died at the vine.
Sean Castrina: So I've never had a perfect financial projection, I guess, is my point where my my
Sean Castrina: I need $5,000 rent this much labor, I need this much for marketing and I just happened to get that in chapter three. It's a fantasy.
Wes Schaeffer: I remember years ago going to
Wes Schaeffer: The SBA
Wes Schaeffer: Oh my gosh.
Wes Schaeffer: These guys would volunteer like it's score.
Sean Castrina: Oh yeah, there you go.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, I mean, I wrote a blog post. I'm like, Don't go go go to the SBA website. Yeah, it's like, and look up business plans. I mean, you're, you're going to, you're going to hit your head on your keyboard and knock yourself unconscious. It's not going to be good.
Sean Castrina: And, you know, the thing about is if you just watch Shark Tank. And, you know, and I there they give you the basic things that matter in a business. But if you really think about it. These guys are going to make a million-dollar investment.
Sean Castrina: I would listen to their questions because they typically hit all the important ones. Yeah.
Sean Castrina: How much money has your business made so far, how many customers do you have, what is your margin, right, what's your operating costs, how much you gotten reserved, would you put in to get this. I mean it ain't rocket science.
Wes Schaeffer: So you start a lot of businesses, your son's getting started did
Wes Schaeffer: Did you just want to give him.
Wes Schaeffer: I don't even know what word to use a more modern or up to date or more
Wes Schaeffer: currently accepted business plan just so you wouldn't be skewed by you or like, what, what led
Sean Castrina: Him, saying,
Sean Castrina: I knew I could have gave him the cheat sheet because I had my own like I can venture business and about six or seven questions. I just went through it, kind of like files on Shark Tank. I know it. That's
Sean Castrina: Because people pitch me all the time. So I know the kind of the important things. But I wanted him to be able to his business idea to take a punch.
Sean Castrina: And I am just as happy about the idea that doesn't have the book knows if I talk you out of going forward with it. I'm just as happy.
Sean Castrina: Because I saved you money and great aggravation and if my business plan.
Sean Castrina: can knock you out the marketplace is going to absolutely destroy your right
Wes Schaeffer: What do you think of the concept. But, you know, sell it first, then build it.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, I think that's a massive mistake. Okay. But I think you build it, but I'm going to play with that a little bit. I, I think you build it to sell.
Sean Castrina: But you don't go in it like you're gonna sell it. I, you know, it's the whole thing. It's like going into a marriage looking to get divorced
Sean Castrina: I mean, to some degree, if you go into a business. She
Sean Castrina: Went up
Wes Schaeffer: Okay.
Wes Schaeffer: Now, and I agree. I know we know that made a
Sean Castrina: Little bit on this. This is good.
Wes Schaeffer: No, no, no, no. I agree. I'm but I'm and I'm I mean more of a product versus the natural business so nobody elaborate because internet marketing world or like I do various coaching, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna launch a 30-day coaching program.
Wes Schaeffer: And to really just push people like literally 30 days every day when I get on a call. I'm going to just hold them accountable, making them to move forward, even if
Wes Schaeffer: Even if all you do that day is hold on and don't fall backwards, right. And so I'm going to pre-sell it, you know, I'm going to see if there's any interest. Before I spend a lot of time building out the model.
Sean Castrina: I absolutely believe that I think okay
Sean Castrina: You micro start every business.
Wes Schaeffer: Okay. Got you.
Sean Castrina: Started at a micro-business a fraction of its full self.
Sean Castrina: It's in my business plan. That's one of my absolute I like I'm like, do not quit your day job you beta test your business. You make sure it has a pulse. You make sure you have an audience. Yeah, I'm a fanatic about what you're talking about.
Wes Schaeffer: Gotcha. Because yeah, I think what you were maybe assuming is like
Wes Schaeffer: Trying to sell the business before you started, ba, ba, ba, I get
Sean Castrina: People that DM that they actually think that and there's that rare exception where
Sean Castrina: You know, I'm starting this business, and they already think they're going to get an out
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah.
Sean Castrina: Right, right. I'm like, you know, that I just, I have not seen that happen often in my lifetime. Right.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, it's like, I think maybe it's too much pop culture. Oh, he had a seven-figure eight-figure exit. Everybody wants to have that on their LinkedIn BIOS like well what if you like what you're doing. Maybe you don't want to exit it
Sean Castrina: Yeah, I got offered a big money. I was funny. I got offered big money, a few months ago to sell one of my businesses. And I'm like, no, because when I did the math. You know, it was good money the lump sum of it. But what I make per year for how little I work
Sean Castrina: In the math didn't add up, you know, I'm like, what am I going to, you know, it doesn't make any sense. Plus I have all these people that I have business partners and people that count on me and
Sean Castrina: Yeah, I'm I don't know I mean I'm for an exit. I think there are times that you definitely sell but it to me it. They'd have to reel. I told him, you have to add a zero to whatever you were thinking
Wes Schaeffer: So, but I want to cover some of the fundamentals.
Wes Schaeffer: And and maybe you can with this question because I think the fundamentals are always the fundamentals.
Sean Castrina: Now they are often everything
Wes Schaeffer: You know, but you know some people might be thinking, well this time is different. We got coven we got a
Wes Schaeffer: Crazy election and the world. We might get a second wave and whatever. So I mean, as we end 2020 as we roll into 2021. Yeah. As we record this, we don't know yet. Who's going to be president. Will it be contested what's Russia going to do what's China going to do. I mean,
Wes Schaeffer: What do you do, what do you tell entrepreneurs and salespeople you know in uncertain times, you know, how do you focus. Where do you focus to ensure you continue to grow.
Sean Castrina: I mean it barring you don't have a gym or restaurant because I think there are businesses that are definitely you know are difficult though if I had a restaurant. I would be doing
Sean Castrina: I would have created like family meals and did like family. I mean, I, you know, there's a pivot there. There's a pivot in every business almost so
Sean Castrina: barring that, I think there's fundamentals of business. You just have to during the virus. You have to say, What am I able to provide
Sean Castrina: Based on condition. A, you may have to change exact, you know, completely how you do it. But, but, things change.
Sean Castrina: And and you have to pivot. There's just no getting around that there's you you know
Sean Castrina: You have to pivot. And if you can't pivot, guess what, you may not survive. And that's what people don't want to hear when I tell people that if you can't pivot.
Sean Castrina: And you don't have enough reserves. You may not live to fight another day. I mean, that's just the sad truth to the whole thing. And if you went down because of a pandemic. I mean, that is a great one that go down by me. This is a one and 100-year event.
Sean Castrina: It is possible that you, you know, nobody wants to hear this that you don't keep throwing good into okay no
Sean Castrina: And you call it a day. There are some businesses. I know if I had I possibly would
Sean Castrina: And and re and live to fight another day. And another business and do things. Again, I
Sean Castrina: I do think there are times when you got to look at the circumstances. Okay, I have no money coming in, nothing but money going out and I don't know when it's going to stop. See, that's the problem. When I don't know when it's going to stop.
Sean Castrina: You know, and again, this is not the happiest conversation. Anybody wants to hear but there are situations like that.
Sean Castrina: I own. Many companies and we pivoted we you know we don't have the same revenue we had, but we're fine because we never you know we live smart prior to that we had margins. We put money in reserves, we had, you know, a lot of repeat customers. So you know we live to fight another day. Right.
Wes Schaeffer: Have you ever had to throw in the towel on a business.
Sean Castrina: Oh, absolutely. There's always a time this whole idea that you know you don't quit you let me give you the criteria for when you call it a day because I think there are times when you got to call it a day. You call it a day when nobody wants what you're selling
Sean Castrina: Okay. Were you launched it. And at some point, you don't have buyers.
Sean Castrina: Were. Number two, you don't know how to attract them anymore.
Sean Castrina: Number three, they're not willing to pay what you need to pay your bills. I mean, there's a margin there that has to be there.
Sean Castrina: So again, if you have whatever you have the marketplace shows no more interest. Okay. Your sales are dramatically down your traffic is dramatically down okay your marketing efforts. You can't figure out how to attract them anymore.
Sean Castrina: So they're not coming after you. And you don't know how to go get them. And number three is you can't sell what you have, you can't sell enough of it.
Sean Castrina: To stay in business and you can't sell it with the margin, you need. So you're kind of get you know any of that combination of three or four of those to me. You gotta, you gotta look and go, Well, I don't know how you survive that.
Sean Castrina: I mean look at every business that went out of business Blockbuster Video Circuit City JC Penney it's everything. I'm talking about what happened. Number one is customers lost interest in their business model.
Sean Castrina: Felt like they could buy it somewhere else. I mean that at the end of the day. That was the big thing and they can't couldn't attract any more customers.
Sean Castrina: So the sales were down when you don't have sales and you don't have revenue, you don't have revenue. You can't pay your bills you go out of business, line them up. I'll go through all your stallworth companies and I just told you how they all went out of business.
Wes Schaeffer: So,
Wes Schaeffer: When do you know that that little cut that little bleed.
Wes Schaeffer: Is unstoppable and is eventually going to turn into an infection and gangrene and kill you, you know, versus. Oh, it's just a little cut we need me to just focus on it, make sure and treat the wound and we'll be okay. Yeah.
Sean Castrina: What I say I get a spreadsheet it between 430 and 445 every single day, no matter where I am anywhere in the world that is a Excel spreadsheet, it shows all my companies and it shows me traffic.
Sean Castrina: Customer interest you know how customers reach out to us everything I got it gives me all my key metrics, I talked about this in my unbreakable rules that you gotta have a dashboard.
Sean Castrina: You got to know your numbers because that you can see it. There's a difference between a blimp, you know, a little blip on the radar and a trend and a sustained trend I tell my, my staff and I train my partners, I can see problems before they arise because I see tremors.
Sean Castrina: Little consistencies little three and four-day patterns little three and four-week patterns.
Sean Castrina: And you got to constantly be looking for them. You got to look at what marketing worked a year ago. That's not working. Now you got to trace. You got to track everything
Sean Castrina: And when you do that, it's like it's like flying a kite a startup is like flying a kite is what I said any little piece of wind can bring it down.
Sean Castrina: Your goal is to get a you know a durable business. And that's, you know, more like, you know, having a you know a barge in the water, you know, assuming you don't hit an iceberg or a lighthouse.
Sean Castrina: You're okay that you try to build your business to that, but many businesses are very fragile and you've got to
Sean Castrina: Keep you got to look out for trends profit trends that are going down, loss of interest, you know, customers aren't reaching out to you at the level they did.
Sean Castrina: Your expenses or maybe to produce what it is you're selling the costs are creeping up and your margins are getting smaller. You just got to be alert to all those things.
Wes Schaeffer: You mean, you just can't ignore a problem and it won't go away.
Sean Castrina: Man, if you can do better than me. If you can figure it out. I find that problems, never go away and they just, they just get bigger.
Wes Schaeffer: And multiply and come back with friends.
Sean Castrina: Can mask the sizes, I think, is the word, but it's thing.
Wes Schaeffer: It's crazy.
Wes Schaeffer: So when like
Wes Schaeffer: Who do you know how do you know when to start tracking this when a
Wes Schaeffer: offloaded to someone right because
Wes Schaeffer: A lot of entrepreneurs, they're just frantic right there. There they can't sleep, they're up there, grinding. They're hustling.
Wes Schaeffer: They're grinding some more, you know, it's like the old joke. Yeah. You see the accountant just falling behind, and
Wes Schaeffer: Was a paper everywhere and the phone rings just got a newbie little pencil there and it's like hey dude wants you go to the store and buy a calculator. It's like, who has time to can't leave my business to go to the store and get a calculator.
Wes Schaeffer: You know what I
Sean Castrina: Do whenever I know whenever I talk to a business owner and they tell me they meet with their accountant every three months. I know that they're going to have problems.
Wes Schaeffer: Because
Sean Castrina: By the time you find out about the problem. It's already it's it the trend is already embedded into, you know, into it.
Sean Castrina: I you know I have a CPA in my office and even when I didn't. I had a CPA that would come in two days a week.
Sean Castrina: And sit you know and alert me to things give me these critical numbers. So you got to have the data. And I'm not trying to be the DR Kevorkian a business right here, you know, Dr. Death
Sean Castrina: But you know your business. You got to look at the fundamentals and we were talking about them before, but the fundamentals are really simple.
Sean Castrina: Do you have a product and or service that customers want. And at the end of the day, that's how you stay in business. I mean, period. That's it. It's as boring as it can get
Sean Castrina: But if people are no longer expressing interest in your product, you must change something insanity.
Sean Castrina: Is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result what I do at the end of every year I do two things. And I think it's why I've started so many companies and they've done well two very critical exercises that I do. Number one is I do a war game scenario.
Sean Castrina: And I've never thought about a pandemic before. So this is totally new one. But I put on the table, everything that could put me out of business.
Sean Castrina: Okay, what could really put me out of business, maybe something within my industry massively changes regulations.
Sean Castrina: I own you know some construction companies. I remember when mold was getting really big and as best, and they were making you get more licensing for that. So that was something serious.
Sean Castrina: But whatever the industry. However, it changes like Blockbuster Video how they didn't do a war game scenario. Oh my gosh, I noticed that there's these red boxes outside
Sean Castrina: Every grocery store.
Sean Castrina: And drugstore and you don't need to have 5000 square feet of retail space, you just need a box and we're going to put 80% of the most rented movies new releases right in this box. Okay. They didn't notice Netflix was mailing movies to people's houses, they could keep them basically indefinitely.
Sean Castrina: Until they mailed them back and then they could zoom it, you're not zoom and I'm sorry but I'm stream it. Another point is you got to do war game scenario.
Sean Castrina: Sears and JC Penney you know your mailing out catalogs when it was online 10 years later, you're still married mailing out a catalog.
Sean Castrina: I mean, you got to see, you know, what could put you out of business. You got to be hyper-alert to that and I go through that at the end of every year. I look at you know what could really put us out of business where we are vulnerable. I want to build a moat around my businesses.
Sean Castrina: So that's, you know, number one. Number two is I want to always add a new profit stream.
Sean Castrina: Every single year, and I look at it like a new business every year. I want to add a new business, a new fresh profit stream.
Sean Castrina: To my businesses because what I've learned is where I was making money, five years ago. I'm not making money today. As much as I'd like to things change.
Sean Castrina: And so if you put all your eggs in one basket. That's, you know, I want to have a lot of baskets. Let me put it that way in and look at Amazon, they do the same thing.
Sean Castrina: Look at that, you know, they went when Amazon Prime. Okay. Then they buy Ring doorbell. Then they buy Zappos, then they mean that they're an aggressive entrepreneur, they buy whole foods, start a grocery division, you know, plus they you know because of their
Sean Castrina: I forgot that their cloud technology is so unbelievable. They are building a moat so big around that company so many massive profit streams.
Sean Castrina: That Microsoft is an extraordinary entrepreneurial company they buy companies as they get started. New profit streams.
Sean Castrina: You know, what is it, Google bought YouTube, you can keep going down the line. I mean, you got to think entrepreneurial. These are massive companies that are still making aggressive moves.
Wes Schaeffer: How do you balance, though, between
Wes Schaeffer: You know, you want to be in and out, or do you want to be McDonald's.
Wes Schaeffer: Right in and out, you know, you want a chicken sandwich or a salad. I mean, okay, tough luck. Don't go to internet
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, right. And obviously, both are successful.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, what would you recommend in and out start selling chicken sandwiches or test.
Sean Castrina: Oh no, they got In and Out Burger works. In and Out Burger.
Sean Castrina: By cell burger. The thing about is, and I've guys, which has been on the east coast for island. They sell burgers hot dogs french fries.
Sean Castrina: Okay, takes three people to run their kitchen. They have one person working the fryer, you know the hot dogs in the burgers. They've got one person work in the French fries.
Sean Castrina: They got one person at the front, taking the orders. I've never seen more than like four people and they're printing money you can have a super niche market look at Subway takes one person to run a typical subway.
Sean Castrina: As anybody had a Subway sandwich that they can honestly tell me is a good sandwich knowing your entire life. You ever eaten a Subway sandwich? That's a best sub I've ever had never it's horrible.
Sean Castrina: But they got like 25,000 of these because their system works. It's not like you eat a hamburger from McDonald's you. That's the best burger. I've ever had. No, you know, but you find yourself back there. Two weeks later.
Sean Castrina: Because they're everywhere. They have the best locations, they're convenient. You know what you're going to get there. There's a lot of ways to make money people and you can
Sean Castrina: Like In and Out Burger and all these other ones, and it works because niches are simple, they're simple to sit there simple to staff.
Wes Schaeffer: So, you know, somebody that they're bumping along
Wes Schaeffer: Maybe that's part of the problem. If you're just bumbling along is actively aggressively.
Wes Schaeffer: Growing
Sean Castrina: That. And that's the difference. It's a mindset, there is a difference. And I'm not into the mindset walk, you know, whoo, whoo. But I think one of the qualities you better have to be a successful entrepreneurs, you better be competitive.
Sean Castrina: You got to be competitive and then you know maybe Bill Gates was extraordinarily competitive Steve Jobs extraordinary competitive don't think Jeff. Jeff Bezos extraordinary these people are competitive, but this. There's another you know another thing there. When you look at your
Sean Castrina: There's a difference between being a business owner and entrepreneur. And I think this is probably the biggest problem out there that some people are business owners.
Sean Castrina: Billy Bob. He started his, you know, auto shop and he does oil changes in front end alignments, and he's happy. Don't get me wrong, he's happy he's making 80 grand a year. It's got a few people working in the garage forum.
Sean Castrina: You know, and somebody working the front desk and it's a good business it's solid, he has one location, he's happy with it may be just maybe puts one on the other side of town.
Sean Castrina: I'm not, that's not an entrepreneur. To me, that's an that's a business owner, who had a couple entrepreneurial moments.
Sean Castrina: And there's nothing wrong with that. There's no criticism of that I see a business idea every six months. It doesn't mean I act on it, but my brain is I've
Sean Castrina: You know program my brain to constant look for new opportunities for new expansions new, you know, new profit streams, and I think that your brain goes one way or the other. You either go in that lockdown mode where you kind of got your business going. You're happy you're surviving
Sean Castrina: And that's, you know, we have a lot of people like that.
Sean Castrina: And they just don't want to go out of business, so they could pass your business on to a you know a family member they that they wouldn't couldn't be any happier in that scenario right and then there's other people that want to do something that's kind of outrageous.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, so let's talk about that that Billy Bob because
Wes Schaeffer: I think I have 27 cousins named Billy Bob. Yeah.
Sean Castrina: And I do. You've been in my family reunion that
Wes Schaeffer: Does is Billy Bob stay in the garage torque and wrenches and hire a CEO or even a CEO to help him grow or dizzy higher mechanics supervise them and slowly extricate themselves from the business to really grow.
Sean Castrina: We know what he should do. But the reality is you can't tell. Billy Bob What to do so in a perfect world, and it's really the E myth.
Sean Castrina: You should pull yourself out of the business so that you can run your business. But if Billy Bob like my dad is an incredible mechanic. He was this whole life.
Sean Castrina: There's nothing wrong with hiring somebody who can manage the business. I mean, if you like doing what you're doing you like turning a wrench and you're gifted at it.
Sean Castrina: I'm not telling you not to do that. I think if you have fun doing it. You're the best, right, nothing wrong with being the best
Sean Castrina: Great. Nothing wrong with everybody in that garage, knowing you are the best man, the owner is the best. So you gotta have somebody that can run it. I just think you
Sean Castrina: You know, I think that it's just a different business model. And there's nothing wrong with it. What makes you happy. And can you, can it be profitable.
Sean Castrina: You know, as a general rule, typically as the owner, you want to extract yourself from anything that you can pay other people to do
Sean Castrina: You know, it's kind of a general rule, but you know if you're good at it and you like doing it. And the example there's like a dentist office or a law office.
Sean Castrina: The people that own it still practice law.
Sean Castrina: Why they love it, they're passionate about it. They went to school for forever doing it. So I don't think you necessarily gotta
Sean Castrina: Pull yourself out of it. I just think you better have somebody who has good who's can do what you choose not to do whatever it is that you're not going to do you need to have somebody good at it. And I think you could do it either or operations and
Wes Schaeffer: So how, how do they know that. I mean, is there. Um, so our rule of thumb is our process and kind of stack the odds in their favor because
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, let's say, Billy Bob realize that maybe he is the bass, bass, getting older, you know, being under a car when it's 100 degrees or when it's 30 degrees like man this is just getting old. It's time to grow.
Wes Schaeffer: You know,
Wes Schaeffer: You answered a mike once
Sean Castrina: He realizes he doesn't want to do it that says that's and that's the luxury of owning his business. So this is the good story about this is what you can do different than other people because you're a business owner
Sean Castrina: Is you have the opportunity right there. You know, when you go home, you're like honey.
Sean Castrina: I don't want to crawl under cars anymore. I realize it hit me today. It was 105 degrees and I don't want to do it. I'm going to hire another mechanic.
Sean Castrina: That's the beauty of being a business owner. So let's say that doesn't hit you, but it hits you, you know, eventually, because it's going to hit you. You have the opportunity to do that. And that's a great thing.
Sean Castrina: So there's, there's, again, no wrong answer, but you know you'll typically you get that aha moment to where you're like, either don't want to do it anymore.
Sean Castrina: Or you're doing the business end of it, you're not good at it. Yeah, I mean, to be frank, like my dad. My dad would have never been good at the business end of it. I mean, you could fix anything
Sean Castrina: But that's not his skill set so I don't I again I think you need to hire somebody to do what you are not good at. I think that's the preeminent hire
Sean Castrina: I do it like this. It's the yin and the yang. It's the one plus one equals done you plus one other person who would make move them, you know, move the needle, the furthest for you. Who's that one higher
Sean Castrina: That if you made would help your business. The most and that's sadly what most small businesses don't do they don't hire that one superstar.
Sean Castrina: That's either incredibly talented as a technician or they're an unbelievable salesperson, which I recommend sales is like the first big iron, because if you can't sell your product you're going to be in trouble. But you got or you have a great operations person.
Sean Castrina: You gotta hire one critical hire that moves the needle.
Sean Castrina: And that's, sadly, one of the major mistakes, it's small businesses don't make don't try to do they try to save money or the higher family and friends, and that is just one of the, you know, one of my eight unbreakable rules, that's, you know, staffing is critical.
Wes Schaeffer: So, all right. So this, Baba right he
Wes Schaeffer: He realized that one calling the cars anymore, but he's a perfectionist. Right. He is the best, best of breed County. So he thinks anything is put us here. Here you're driving up
Wes Schaeffer: He knows what the hell's wrong with your car.
Wes Schaeffer: And so he's gonna hire above a junior
Wes Schaeffer: That is good, but not as great as him. He's at 20
Wes Schaeffer: Right He's
Wes Schaeffer: Grew up you know hand and daddy a ranch. You know, when he was still drinking a bottle.
Wes Schaeffer: He's very good, but he's not the greatest in three counties. How does baba keep from, you know, it's like you got to give that young kid.
Sean Castrina: He works with him.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, he's got to work to give them room or
Sean Castrina: He's got to give them room and then maybe signs off at the end of every job. You know, before you hand it back to the customer. Take me through or let me hear your strategy. I know, working in business, my son. It's kind of like, Okay, what's your plan. Like, how are you going to fix this.
Sean Castrina: Let them fix it. And then at the end.
Sean Castrina: Take it first spin or what, you know, you'd see all mentoring process it, this isn't new. In that you just gotta you're gonna have to take some time mentoring someone and at some point in your business, you're gonna have to do that anyway.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, you need to make for business to grow, you got to have a few of us. You got to have some talented people in the building and you're either going to hire them or train them, but you know they're not going to be there by accident.
Wes Schaeffer: Did you say I've got to have a youth. What's a youth.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, there you get
Sean Castrina: Somebody like you. You need somebody like you. The price and I
Sean Castrina: It's funny, I was with one of my business partners and we always go through this growth strategy at the end of the year. And I looked at him and I said, Tony.
Sean Castrina: He's drawn up all this stuff on whiteboards, and my head's getting dizzy and I said here IRA. So everything I'm going to tell you
Sean Castrina: How to solve this problem and how to make more money next year. Tony and I drew a stick figure on there. And I said, Tony, you need to hire end or train another Tony
Sean Castrina: That's it. I mean everything you're talking about. Sounds great. But the problem is you need another you
Sean Castrina: I said the reason why I'm I'm making an extra zero above all my business partners. I've recruited all you all see I have duplicated me I have seven business partners and I tell them until you can do what I've done, your, your, you know, your paycheck your profit is limited.
Sean Castrina: So, that that is one of the critical things your ability to recruit
Sean Castrina: And retain and motivate and identify talent that is a superpower that great entrepreneurs have and I would say, more so than any one skill I have that is my number one skill. Not even close.
Sean Castrina: Right, my ability to see talented people recruit them. Get them to leave their jobs and come join a start-up with me and take that risk a little bit and you know that's what I've been doing for 25 years
Wes Schaeffer: Mean, were you always good at it, or were you just stubborn and stuck with it.
Sean Castrina: You know I mean I mean I can communicate in such a way that when I've asked partners, why they did it. They go, I just was convinced it was going to succeed, they go, Sean, you give that
Sean Castrina: Energy that it's probably going to work, you know, and, and I don't want to miss out on it. You know, I think if anybody was partnered with me in business or like you're very organized
Sean Castrina: You know, you think through things. And so, you know, why not, you know, so you got. And that's what every great entrepreneurs Ilan musk or any of these people, Bill Gates watch them convey their startup story.
Sean Castrina: They believe it's going to work.
Sean Castrina: And and I bet you a lot of people jumped on board and the ones who did made out okay the point, but that's what founders have, you've got to have that you've got to be able to convey
Sean Castrina: Your vision for what this company is going to do, because people are not going to work for you work for you because you pay them the most. I never paid any of my people. The most I couldn't. It was a startup.
Sean Castrina: So I had to sell them on the future and what we were going to do and how exciting this was going to be, and the team. We were going to put together and how we were going to, you know, change our industry or do something incredible
Sean Castrina: That is one of the skill sets that you know entrepreneurs have. And again, we know this. There's a difference between a business owner and entrepreneur and a great entrepreneur. Okay, we're, you know, we're going into different levels here.
Sean Castrina: And you know I like to think, you know, three or four books later and my tax returns, we chill. Yeah. I mean, I've kind of been working at this for a long time. And until I figured out partnering
Sean Castrina: And critical staffing. I was just very average. Mm hmm.
Wes Schaeffer: How did you learn that just trial and error.
Sean Castrina: You know what, what I had a chance. Early on, and I did it by accident, maybe, or whatever. But I started a company and I owned
Sean Castrina: Real quick stories that I owned a direct mail magazine and 23 cities and I worked with local public I would recruit a publisher, place them in a city and then I would rinse and repeat and do it in another city.
Sean Castrina: Like it was a direct mail magazine and it did really well. I started a handyman company because I tried to turn a home office in my house into an office trying to
Sean Castrina: Hire a handyman and my town was like trying to find a one eyed Leprechaun. It was unbelievable. I just didn't want a chandelier hanging over my head.
Sean Castrina: So I said, I'm going to start a handyman company now back then I could not assemble a three piece birdhouse
Sean Castrina: And 21 years later, I can't assemble a one piece birdhouse, I am the least mechanical person on the planet.
Sean Castrina: So I started this company I'm pretty good at branding and creating traffic five weeks into it. I had 54 phone calls for work.
Sean Castrina: So I knew that I had hit something now, at that point, I could have. I was driving an hour away training. These people magazine, I probably could have walked away from my magazine. A lot of people would have done that sold it walked away.
Sean Castrina: What I did is I kept a magazine allowed that to pay my bills. I took the profit that I would normally give to myself. That's what the normal startup person would do and I brought on a partner.
Sean Castrina: Who had been in construction 25 years so that he could be in the office and keep an eye on everybody and talk to customers and deal with customer issues.
Sean Castrina: So I took this I made the sacrifice to hire him with my profit within three years, we're doing over a million dollars and it was the smartest move. I've ever done. And I've done that.
Sean Castrina: I've rinsed and repeated that model for the last 21 years but I, that was a critical decision. I had to make. I could have sat in the office made $100,000 a year.
Sean Castrina: And basically did very little.
Sean Castrina: And instead, I took my money and brought in someone to partner with me to be the one plus one equals done
Sean Castrina: I handled the marketing the systems made the phone rang and I let him oversee the day to day granular part of, of what we did, so he could interview a person ago
Sean Castrina: You know, yeah, this person knows what they're doing. And you know, I didn't know if you even told you could lie to me and tell me anything I'd hire you because I didn't know what what what a good hire was so I know I needed that person and I did it. And that was really
Sean Castrina: That was the best decision I ever made. And I that has been my formula for the last 21 years finding the one person that I can put with me.
Sean Castrina: In my companies and it's kind of my superpower.
Wes Schaeffer: As you add companies are rolled into a different industry is it always the same person, like is it because you're always you
Wes Schaeffer: Right, I'm always made they change.
Sean Castrina: But
Sean Castrina: They typically have a certain skill set.
Sean Castrina: Right they they understand the industry. Way better than me. So in that situation like I didn't know anything about construction clearly so I bring in somebody who's an industry expert.
Sean Castrina: They eat, drink, and sleep it they understand it. Every piece of it, but they've never ever run a business before they've been an employee in it.
Sean Castrina: So that's the number one thing I look at number two is they want to they want to own something
Sean Castrina: They know they're going to put as much time into it. I need somebody with lots of time, they're going to eat, drink, and sleep. This one thing I don't want an entrepreneur.
Sean Castrina: I don't want somebody's going to get bored with this and try to do so. I want this to be their business for the rest of their life. And this is all they're going to think about
Sean Castrina: So, you know, and then integrity. You know, I don't ever want to be looking over my shoulders and you know and wonder if somebody's stealing money from the kitty so
Sean Castrina: I want somebody who's an absolute industry expert and they're going to put their life into this
Sean Castrina: That they know this is their chance to make six figures or more and and I know they're going to give me everything they got and I'm going to provide this startup capital. I'm good at getting companies off the ground.
Sean Castrina: Good at marketing. I'm good at making phone rings and driving traffic to it. But once I get it going. I want to hand it to you. I need you to run the day to day because why I'm an entrepreneur. I'm going to go find something else. I'm going to rinse and repeat.
Wes Schaeffer: How much do you trust them, though, because I've got too many stores and too many people
Sean Castrina: Because people partnering correctly and they don't do it right. Number one is I have a CPA in my office and I have a CPA over top of that CPA.
Sean Castrina: Who sends me a spreadsheet in an email and an Excel spreadsheet, I get it about. Remember I talked about that for 45 one I get one about 430 to 5am with every bank account.
Sean Castrina: With an asterisk next to anything that would look suspicious. Every one of my partners, know that so they would probably get a theft for about 12 hours.
Sean Castrina: They would be figured out I hire people that I wouldn't, I don't want to think I'd need to do that. I mean, typically, they've lived in the area for a long time, pretty solid citizens, you know, you can kind of look at that. But they know that there's an extraordinary oversight.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, and Natalie, because, I mean,
Sean Castrina: Right, if you give if you give a person an opportunity to steal on any given day. Anybody in a weak moment good people make bad decisions. Yeah.
Sean Castrina: So I don't give them that they know it wouldn't. They'd never get away with it. So they just know that going in. I'm like here. See this personnel. She's a CPA in the office, but over her. You see, Linda that comes in. She oversees that and so I let them know that I put safeguards in
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah.
Sean Castrina: And then I create systems and I'm a fanatic about systems.
Sean Castrina: So that things can't get through the cracks.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah. Amen. So how do you know when it's coming along nicely enough that you can take your eye off the ball a little bit and go into your next venture
Sean Castrina: Yeah. Typically, it takes about 18 months just as a general and that's the timeframe that I'm always kind of thinking. But when I keep giving the business partner, a little more
Sean Castrina: Little more, you know, rain, a little more responsibility and I start looking at those metrics and I see the trends are positive customers are happy.
Sean Castrina: Typically what I got to teach them to do the most important thing I find with bringing on partners, I got to teach them how to hire
Sean Castrina: They're normally not very good at hiring. It's something they've never done before, like, one thing I always teach when I'm like we're interviewing
Sean Castrina: And at the end of the interview the personal leave and I'll go, would you hire them and they'll go yeah of course they're always going to hire people starting to sing. I've ever seen. And I go, Well, how would you rate them.
Sean Castrina: Seven. I go, but we don't. There's no more sevens in hiring. That's a secret never seven there. There are six or an eight. There is no such thing as a seven, deep down,
Sean Castrina: I said, because the seven is a six or it's a seven is an eight they got to be a six or an eight they got to be one of the other six. You don't hire sixes. They don't move the needle.
Sean Castrina: Eight move the needles because he can be nines. So when I tell my partner's you can't hire any sevens.
Sean Castrina: That makes them better at hiring. So I mentor them on the stuff I'm sharing on the podcast, I'm like okay can't hire sevens. Now go, well, we can't hire that person, then I go great. Let's keep interviewing because I didn't think that guy was that good anyway.
Sean Castrina: You know so working with them on hiring is critical and then working with them on creating systems, so things don't fall through the cracks.
Sean Castrina: That's like one of the most important thing is to just, I have to mentor them. I put all my time into working one on one with them.
Sean Castrina: And I truly let them run the company and I'm available to them. They can ask me questions, but I know that I got to be very involved for about the first six months. Big time. But then about a year and a half.
Wes Schaeffer: And are you making them a partner in the business. I'm not
Wes Schaeffer: Sharing in the products.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, absolutely. I always do 5050
Sean Castrina: Oh yeah, I always do.
Sean Castrina: Because the bottom line is I haven't found a. Now I don't always make them 50% owner in the stock like I've done a 5149 stock because I tell them when we have a coin flip.
Sean Castrina: On making the decision because I have more business acumen than you do. And they understand that, but I always do a 5050 profit share the reason why I do that because five years down the road. They're going to be working 90% harder than I am.
Sean Castrina: And if you're getting more than them. That is not going to fly.
Sean Castrina: As much as you think it's going to fly. You can say, well, I found that I started it. I'm telling you that will any of the 5050 I've just learned is fair. It just works and I've always said, I'd rather a 50% of a lot than 100% of a little
Wes Schaeffer: Have you ever offered like 60 or 70 or
Sean Castrina: 80% now. No. No. No. Never.
Sean Castrina: Never, never. That's never happened. I'm worth 50% because without me. There would be no business and I always tell them that I go, there's going to be a day.
Sean Castrina: Five or 10 years down the road. You're going to go. I can't believe I'm splitting this with Sean and I said, I just want you to remember
Sean Castrina: That and I want you to tell me that right now. I could not get this business off the ground without Sean, there would be no company without Shaw.
Sean Castrina: Because, again, five or 10 years from now when I'm doing, you know, two hours a week, and you're splitting it with me. I don't want you to be pissing and moaning because zero times zero is always zero. So, if there was never a company to start with, you'd still be an employee at your job.
Wes Schaeffer: Mm-hmm.
Sean Castrina: So I, you know, occasionally we have to have those reminders, because they'll come back to me and try to
Sean Castrina: Get a little bit more. And I just give them that look like. Are you really asking me this I foresaw this and know you're ready. I always if I said you know the answer, don't you. Yeah, I know. I was just gonna ask
Wes Schaeffer: I mean, is that a good sign.
Sean Castrina: I mean, I don't mind. I mean, that's just it's normal to do it, but I don't ever I don't ever do it because the problem is is let's say you're 5050 and you move it up to 55 you open Pandora's box at some point they're gonna want 60
Sean Castrina: And 65. So my thing is keep it at 50 5050 just makes it's a nice spread
Sean Castrina: And there's once you go over that you have opened up Pandora's box. So that's why I don't ever do it. Yeah.
Sean Castrina: That's just what has worked for me. I mean, other people can do different things and
Sean Castrina: You know, I'm just sharing with you what's worked for me over 25 years and, you know, done, you know, made me a good bit of money. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: So what about this coven world this Does everything work in a remote environment.
Sean Castrina: Oh, gosh. No, no. I mean, clearly, you can't fix a car remote
Sean Castrina: Can't get your gutters done remote, you know, there, there are certain things that you need people to do
Sean Castrina: But I do believe that commercial real estate is going to take a massive hammering over the next few years, because the traditional lot of businesses that are on the phone and doing customer service like any business that
Sean Castrina: That 90% of what you do as a computer and or a phone. I think that's going remote
Sean Castrina: So the big call centers, the big customer service centers, the big sale centers and all that. I think the model is definitely going to change. And it has. But I don't think it'll ever go back quite the way it did.
Wes Schaeffer: But I mean, what about like leading your team's growing your teams. Does this have to be done in person or
Sean Castrina: No.
Sean Castrina: No, you can motivate any way possible. But I mean one. I mean, in person is always best. I think we all know that, but you can only do what you can do.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, I
Sean Castrina: Mean you can't, you know you you got to work with. You got to work with the situation that you have no
Wes Schaeffer: And
Wes Schaeffer: The businesses, you've created in the past. I mean, were they were they local where you could see them or where they are.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, they're minor all local
Sean Castrina: Which I'm a brick and mortar, you know, kind of guy. Very simple. I don't you know I don't
Sean Castrina: You know, I don't do like online complete businesses. I'm your typical guy that has employees every Friday, get the big FedEx envelopes and we pay everybody it's I'm one of those guys, you know, real tax returns and just an unusual concept in this space.
Sean Castrina: And that's why I said if I didn't own a business. I would never write books.
Wes Schaeffer: Right.
Sean Castrina: Because that's all my material stuff that I experience every single day. So yeah, I mean I nothing really that special about me except real businesses, that's for sure.
Wes Schaeffer: And I love what you said before we started.
Wes Schaeffer: You know you're verified all these social media accounts, but you never log in.
Wes Schaeffer: There's a
Wes Schaeffer: How do you build a trustworthy crew. That's not going to say something stupid on social media.
Sean Castrina: Well, that's the key number one is that when I meet with my team. There is a thing about recruiting good teams is that
Sean Castrina: You share with them, your value structure like if you look me up on Instagram. You'll notice that I did something that's unusual that I told my team. Listen, I have incredible cars. Okay, I have cars that would make Jay Z. You know, I've got a garage. That's pretty nice.
Sean Castrina: Okay, and I can fly private all those things are great but I on my Instagram. I do a two-minute video where I go, if you're following me because you think I'm going to show you my life every day. I'm the wrong person to follow.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah.
Sean Castrina: You know, occasionally I may throw something out there, follow me because I'm going to help you with your business.
Sean Castrina: But if you're following me because this is going to be a pissing contest of whether how many cars, whose houses bigger and all this nonsense. I'm going to be the worst follower in the world because that doesn't interest me and I'm not going to share that stuff and so
Sean Castrina: I told my team that from the very beginning that
Sean Castrina: They know not, they know don't make any crazy promises out there like they ran something one time that was like he can get he can help you start a business in five days. I went through the roof.
Sean Castrina: You know, I said, Don't you ever make a promise that you don't run through me first. And that's just part of being a team that's how you build teams.
Sean Castrina: Is you got to share with them your values like the people work for me, my service companies. I'm like, do you not make a promise to a customer that we can't deliver on
Sean Castrina: Because if I find out you did. We are going to have a problem.
Sean Castrina: So it's just a part of your DNA, a part of the culture that you build and I'm very when I communicate. Oh, you know, I joke, you know, leadership, I was just as funny.
Sean Castrina: I was training, one of my partners and he had spoken to somebody and I'm like, Stephen. You're not a leader. I go, you have a business card that says you're a leader, but you're not a leader. He goes, What do you mean I go Stephen acids. Don't move. When you talk
Sean Castrina: You ever watched me talk Stephen asses scatter
Sean Castrina: They scatter when they hear my voice, and I'm not a big guy. I go, but when I speak asked is move. I go, That's leadership.
Sean Castrina: People need to understand, you know, what you stand for what you will tolerate what your expectations are. That's just leadership.
Sean Castrina: And so, you know, even with the social media because they know you know that it will get back to me because my son. Thankfully, he's really good at it. He kind of keeps his eye on everything for his dad, but
Sean Castrina: I told them you know this. I now want to have a social media platform that's realistic and represents me
Sean Castrina: And, you know, I'm not Gary Vee I don't drop f-bombs or whatever. And that's fine with him, but I'm not going to like say anything that's going to really shock anybody. It's just not my style.
Wes Schaeffer: So do you have a social media strategy or
Sean Castrina: Oh yeah, I have an incredible team and they're one of the best strategy teams in the world.
Sean Castrina: They're, they're great. Don't get me wrong, and they're as good as you can get. But what when I met with them. I wanted to share with them my values. I'm like, Listen, I'm not selling courses that are that make unrealistic promises.
Sean Castrina: I said, One out of every two startup fails. I go, that's, you know, so it's hard to sell a course when you already go into what a 50% failure rate.
Sean Castrina: You know, so I, I just had to communicate with them. I didn't, you know, I don't want to be like other people in the space that make bodacious promises. That's for them if
Sean Castrina: I get jazzed about starting businesses. I want to show people how to start real businesses not
Sean Castrina: All the hype and all the mindset and all the mean they're their tools, but at the end of the day, you got to know the fundamentals of how to start and grow a business to do it. And I know how to do that. Mm-hmm.
Sean Castrina: Probably not the sexiest person to follow.
Wes Schaeffer: But on your favorite works that sexy.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, but no 100,000 people. I have a private account I have 100,000 people that have followed me in six months.
Sean Castrina: So I'm doing something right.
Wes Schaeffer: So is it. So I'm trying. Understand though. Like you have a good team, and do they say, okay, yo to do well on Instagram. You need to cover these topics at this rate by law or you're like, look, I'm gonna, I'm going to speak. When I moved right when I they
Wes Schaeffer: Have something to say. And then you'll just
Wes Schaeffer: Promote it when I give it to you.
Sean Castrina: Know, I have to fall. In other words, they give me the fundamentals of social media like a Sean. Okay, you got to post something every day.
Sean Castrina: Okay, so they'll give me that now regarding content.
Sean Castrina: They'll say to me, you know, this is kind of what we would like you to do, they'll give me examples of it based on other people will show me other people in social media.
Sean Castrina: But then all the content is my original so I'll go to the studio and I'll create all the stories that I want, but they're all original all everything's original to me. But no, they were fantastic. They were like,
Sean Castrina: You know, they took a few weeks to kind of come up with what they felt like would work with me. They tried to find other people on social media that were similar in style like a john Maxwell.
Sean Castrina: A john Gordon, you know somebody who fits my value structure, maybe, and more my how I would communicate and they're like, okay, it works for other this is how we're going to do it, ya know, that's the key to having a great teams. Yeah, you got up there. You have to have an alignment.
Wes Schaeffer: Mm-hmm.
Sean Castrina: And these people were very aligned with what I wanted. And, and, you know, they're probably they may be one of the best. So maybe I don't know who they work with. Like, I can say that there may be want to be the teams on the planet.
Wes Schaeffer: And when you raise who they were.
Sean Castrina: Yeah. Where do they work with definitely say the one of the best on the planet.
Wes Schaeffer: Would you say it's moving the needle for you.
Sean Castrina: I think it, you know, I think we're going into the second phase of it. I think that we went into this with kind of like a two year
Sean Castrina: I'm a realist and I think initially when we went into social media. It was like, you have to have this many people to have credibility.
Sean Castrina: Okay, now we're going to the next phase of monetizing that because I'm a business guy. And when I told them is I don't care how big the following is, if you can, if it doesn't make money, then it's a vanity project.
Wes Schaeffer: Right.
Sean Castrina: So I keep them accountable to what I believe works. And then I'm like, you guys can do everything you want. But I tell them this, there's only one measuring stick of measuring stick for success if we don't make money with this platform. I don't care how big you grew it, it failed.
Sean Castrina: So this all has to come into the equal sign monetization.
Sean Castrina: And if Instagram is the vehicle. That's fine. You guys got to show me how to monetize it. And I made it clear to them all. You know, this is great. You build 200,000 or 250,000 people, but if you don't make money.
Sean Castrina: It fail in my opinion. I'm a business guy failed the law of profit. The law of Prophet says if you didn't make money, no matter how good your idea was, it wasn't a good idea and matter what your strategy was, if you didn't make profit. It wasn't a good strategy.
Sean Castrina: So I still hold them to the monetization. Mm-hmm.
Wes Schaeffer: Can people be real, or valid or whatever word without a big social media presence.
Sean Castrina: I mean, I think, I think you can, I think, you know, you can write books, you know, I mean, there's a lot of ways to be credible.
Sean Castrina: You can be credible, because you maybe you write articles and they've been published. So that would be one way to be credible, I think if you could write for Forbes and Entrepreneur magazine or whatever fits your space, you could be credible.
Sean Castrina: Again, I think you could write a book that would make you credible.
Sean Castrina: And then I think you can just post stuff within your space that you understand and how it resonates. It may take more time to resonate. But there's everybody. There's a following. There's somebody who will darn your follow anybody
Sean Castrina: You know, so I just think you gotta be you and find your area of expertise and be you know and like as Gary Vee says just posted every day, at some point, see what happens.
Sean Castrina: Yeah, but you can only I think you got to be authentic. I think that's the most important thing
Sean Castrina: You have to be authentic, I think it's hard to, I just don't know how you could fake it for years. Like, even on social media. And just to me. That'd be like feeding a dragon. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: It's like I agree 100% it just seems like almost people become character pictures of themselves, right, they, they, they are overly authentic. They're, they're trying to be authentic, and as a result, they're coming across as an authentic. We have
Wes Schaeffer: Too hard
Wes Schaeffer: I don't need to see everything in your whole life just for transparency and authenticity.
Sean Castrina: I agree. I think there's it would never work like with my wife that would never fly. I mean, there's definitely a separation of
Sean Castrina: What we would be allowed to show and all that. I think you got to find something that fits your value structure that you're comfortable with your family's comfortable with.
Sean Castrina: I don't believe everybody wants to see everything. They only want to see it if you want to show it. But if they can tell that it's not you.
Sean Castrina: Then it doesn't work. To me, it's just, you know, again, I think you got to find somebody online, you know, find somebody through social media that you can parallel
Sean Castrina: That and just kind of like start following people that are similar in style to who you would be
Sean Castrina: That's what I started doing I try to find people that were, you know, weren't like PT Barnum way over the top and you know kind of
Sean Castrina: Just talked and we're smart and we're edge. You know, we're, you know, I'm not. I'm a information guy. I don't like hype.
Sean Castrina: I want to give you the granular steps to how to start a business and all that. So I think, you know, find people online that fit your you know what you're trying to do and mirror them a little bit. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: And people should do that with you. Right.
Sean Castrina: There. Welcome to On the boring is follow on Instagram, but I gave you the if you want to learn how to start a business. I'm the best follow. So that's how I that's how I'd share it with you.
Wes Schaeffer: And so everything is linked here. So it's Sean cash Trina with the C RY s EA n Sean cast trina.com
Wes Schaeffer: Get your book there you're giving away right now, social media links right I can find you from there.
Wes Schaeffer: And everything else. Right.
Wes Schaeffer: And
Wes Schaeffer: And that's a real picture of you with a plane, not a didn't
Sean Castrina: Have to rent the car rent everything out and then
Wes Schaeffer: While you're wearing a rented tux or. Yeah, okay, good.
Wes Schaeffer: A lot of posers out there, man. Oh.
Sean Castrina: I know it is comical. But now I'm sitting in a 9000 square feet house with 10 bathrooms and a guest house so it
Sean Castrina: For real.
Wes Schaeffer: All right, well, my wife and our seven kids were coming to visit, because you can't say you don't have room.
Sean Castrina: And now we got will always have room.
Sean Castrina: appreciate you having me on the podcast.
Wes Schaeffer: Hey, man. It's been great two pages of notes here will put out with the episode and I appreciate taking the time.
Sean Castrina: No, thank you so much less. I appreciate it wish you well.
Wes Schaeffer: All right. Have a great day.
Sean Castrina: All right, take care.