Wes Schaeffer: Rod Santomassimo, author of the upcoming book, "Don't Kid Yourself: Knowing Isn't Doing. Build the Business and Life You Desire." all the way from North Carolina, man. Welcome to The Sales Podcast. How the heck are you?
Rod Santomassimo: Okay well as it's going great. How are you man?
Wes Schaeffer: Hey key question here.
Rod Santomassimo: Yep.
Wes Schaeffer: All right, Clemson or LSU.
Rod Santomassimo: Wow. Well, because I'm a Duke fan and do graduate, I gotta go. The ACC but I gotta tell you, I do like LSU was a football team. So I'm going with LSU
Wes Schaeffer: I did not want to end this podcast but I was my finger was hovering over end meeting. I mean, it was, it was going to be the shortest podcast interviewed history.
Wes Schaeffer: I'm telling everybody. So we're recording this Monday, January 13 we're go live when your book comes out in March.
Wes Schaeffer: They're balanced. But I told everybody the rest of this week, I'll be drinking. I'm gonna be celebrating or I'll be morning so CHICKEN ON ME ON THE 20th. Alright, see if I'm still alive.
Wes Schaeffer: We're having a party. My wife's cooking up gumbo, jambalaya, red beans and rice, cornbread...friends are coming over. We're gonna bust open the Pappy Van Winkle I just got.
Rod Santomassimo: Whoa, whoa okay big night tonight.
Wes Schaeffer: This is a big night. All right. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, well, you know what this interview is even bigger. So shall we dive right in?
Rod Santomassimo: Let's dive right in.
Wes Schaeffer: Let's do I love this. Don't kid yourself KID knowing isn't doing amen. It was just old joke you know the math teachers in school and says, Okay, everybody. There are three frogs sitting on a log and one of them decides to jump off. How many are still left? And little Johnny raises his hand. He says "Three."
Wes Schaeffer: Little Johnny, no. Two minus one or three minus one is two. He says, "No, ma'am. You said they decided to jump off. You didn't say one jumped."
Wes Schaeffer: Right. She's like, oh, I see your brain. So that's kind of where you're getting that in like deep, maybe you've never been deep down your Southern boy like me. I know, I know you know that story. Don't
Rod Santomassimo: Know thing before and raised in New York, I can say that for three frog around the tree trunk right so story. I knew
Wes Schaeffer: Come on, you live in the South, though, you're, you're officially a Southern boy now.
Rod Santomassimo: I have. I've lived longer in the South. I haven't been or if that is true. That's very true, actually. Bye bye, many years. So yes, I get it. That was true. Hey, you can't decide to act, but that so what great, I'm happy for you.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, so what brought this up knowing isn't doing what led what inspired that?
Rod Santomassimo: Well, it came to a point where we every time we were coaching somebody and we run a coaching organization, they would say things like, yeah, I know that. And then we say, okay, it's great. How's it working out for you.
Rod Santomassimo: And you have the knowledge and knowledge is, don't get me wrong, knowledge is so essential because it's an essential step to actually action.
Rod Santomassimo: And even if you don't need the knowledge, just do the action. You'll figure it out.
Rod Santomassimo: So that was it, people telling us. Yeah, I know that was like, well, that's I'm really happy that you know it, but the fact is, you don't know if you haven't done it.
Rod Santomassimo: And whether that's really it. You know, I think the sequel to this book may be doing is knowing it might be, I don't know until you know
Rod Santomassimo: So that is so you have to do it. And I was talking to people tell us. Yeah, I know that. But no one was actually doing it and not seeing the results of their knowledge that didn't help them.
Wes Schaeffer: So maybe they know what they don't believe it. You think
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, that could be that gets a good look at that way they know it or they don't know how to implement knowledge into results and to action for results. Therefore, they're stuck. Yeah, I know that, but
Rod Santomassimo: You know it for me was how I know I shouldn't each option cookies I realized that's a negative to my fitness goals, but I occasionally do
Rod Santomassimo: Right. But you know what if I stopped, I'd be more fit. Hell yeah yeah
Wes Schaeffer: Man, I'm I'm literally I'm having a text conversation with a friend of mine that I grew up with.
Wes Schaeffer: And she's my parent's age is she's going through stuff in her life personal her husband died and in me literally having this chat this morning and she's alone. And I'm like,
Wes Schaeffer: You know, do you have any help, right. A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR community anything. She's like, Yeah, but I mean I see others like with so much more, you know, bigger problems. And I'm like if you're in six feet of water you're drowning. It doesn't matter that somebody else is in 12 feet of water.
Wes Schaeffer: Right. And it's like, but if if you are only in six and you're easier to save. And then when you're saved, then you can help save those in 10 and 12 and 100 feet of water, you know, she's like, Oh yeah, good point. I mean, do we struggle. I mean, do we not want to reach out for help, do we not want to be an imposition or are we embarrassed to like put that foot forward, right, knowing isn't doing. I mean, because I know, I know you're giving good advice and people probably still don't follow it.
Rod Santomassimo: Oh, absolutely true. And I think it depends on where you are in first mostly professionals. Right. It's where you are in your career.
Rod Santomassimo: Where they are new to business person of mid-career. You're stuck and you really don't know how to get away because you've been what worked before it's working now that could be a major implement or
Rod Santomassimo: Or you're doing really well, but you couldn't do so much better. I mean, okay one an adult. We work with a gentleman who was one of the top producing
Rod Santomassimo: commercial real estate brokers in the world. Who's making close to $6 million a year.
Rod Santomassimo: And only want to do is say, hey, is there a way I could do this and have more time my new daughter so we see know what do this, this and this. He said, Well, I know I should be doing that, but I don't see the results of doing these things. Well, guess what he made eight than 12 and 15 and $18 million. The next four years.
Rod Santomassimo: And these weren't major shifts and practices you just implementation of certain fundamentals that you should do on a consistent basis to get, get the results.
Rod Santomassimo: can clone rewards. Some calm results, but it's the activities. It's always the activities. I do believe attitude is essential, but I don't believe attitude is everything. I just don't because add to is great. Just like knowledge but you got to act. You gotta act. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Pull the trigger and ride the bullet. Hmm.
Rod Santomassimo: Pull the trigger.
Rod Santomassimo: I have one.
Wes Schaeffer: Roy WILLIAMS SAYS THAT ALL THE TIME OUT IN AUSTIN that's a super smart dude.
Wes Schaeffer: So, and that was your background right you've spent a lot of time in real estate.
Rod Santomassimo: Well, my dad when I was growing up, my dad was a consultant and more of a construction facilities consultant
Rod Santomassimo: And he got me on two projects with rice ways. And then he actually had me read Lisa is not a young kid. And to me, that's what the business rules about imagining 10 years old and I've been told to read Elise, not your favorite thing.
Rod Santomassimo: Um, but, and then I went off to college and I went to grad school. I know that data for grad school West I told my dad. I looked and said, Dad, I know you you've taken real estate's a place for me to be. But I will never ever work in real estate, of course, now I own the
Rod Santomassimo: Walk is a coaching consulting organization in the industry. So it's so big it happens.
Wes Schaeffer: The, the arrogance of youth.
Rod Santomassimo: arrogance of yours.
Wes Schaeffer: So you get into, you've got a thing here, the CEO mindset.
Wes Schaeffer: Can small companies even solo printers have that
Rod Santomassimo: Okay, nothing I can they have to have it mean you you have to run your business.
Rod Santomassimo: As a business. It just, you know, everyone hears that and I say, yeah, yeah. I get it. But most solo printers. Unfortunately, run their business as a hobby something they do that they can nine to five that during one really good thing. I know you know the book. I love the book.
Rod Santomassimo: The E myth revisited by Michael Gerber he broke down the technician, the manager, right, the operator and
Rod Santomassimo: Who we should be well a CEO truly is in order to have an organization. And therefore, you have to have a sales department.
Rod Santomassimo: Of finance department, a marketing department and operations department, the human resource department and you have to be all five initially, but as a CEO, you're responsible for everything.
Wes Schaeffer: Now, but doesn't that kind of
Wes Schaeffer: bog you down. I mean, there are so many fires to put out in the beginning. I mean, before you make that first hire. It's almost like
Wes Schaeffer: It's like you're drowning right, you can't. And you know you're close right I'm
Wes Schaeffer: I'm maybe six to I used to be. I don't even want to maybe I shrunk. I don't know. I am I turned 50 in April, I don't know how I feel about that. But I digress.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, if I'm in six feet three inches of water. I'm drowning. I get so close. But so far away right how
Wes Schaeffer: Is it a superhuman effort is it maybe stop working so hard and work smarter to make that that key transition get that first key employee or the second key employee to really have a business versus a hobby.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, I believe it is. And I, my goal of every book I read and I read I read as much as I humanly can listen to more books.
Rod Santomassimo: Podcasts is get one sentence from everything I do to change the trajectory of what I'm going to do.
Rod Santomassimo: For example, Tim Ferriss four Hour Workweek my first year in the business of my new of this company. I said, Oh, shit. I can outsource, you know, or give me Oh shoot, I can outsource
Rod Santomassimo: So I learned to use Ilana and then up work and start outsourcing things to give me some relief and that was a big one, then I read
Rod Santomassimo: Hyper sales growth by jack daily and the one sentence that entire book basically said nine words which changed the director again.
Rod Santomassimo: If you do not have an admin, I guess if you don't have an admin. You are one, I recognize. I'm trying to run a business and I was an admin doing 10 HOUR AND A $10 an hour work. So I hired an admin.
Rod Santomassimo: And that changed directory. So you have to have a belief that what you're doing is is good, it's essential, it adds value. Absolutely. But for you to add that value and provide that service and our product.
Rod Santomassimo: Ultimately, you got to do what you do best. Therefore, you've got to invest in yourself and you've got to invest in people around you and to me that's the essential thing of being a great CEO.
Wes Schaeffer: Does this apply to individual salespeople individual producers.
Rod Santomassimo: Oh yeah, absolutely. We work with thousands of brokers independent contractors Commission based folks they build out their own teams, they outsource for research or
Rod Santomassimo: Some of your now store for their prospecting, you know, and I all get out in a little bit.
Rod Santomassimo: But yeah, constantly outsourcing in today's market west you know this, you can go out and hire someone across the globe for a very fractious narrowly cost to do pretty damn good work just that's where we are today. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, but how I know salespeople individual producers.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, everybody. It's hard to delegate give stuff away if you're going to want to done right, you got to do it yourself. You know, maybe they still have a little bit that employee attitude, even though, deep down, ultimately, they are
Wes Schaeffer: A sponsored entrepreneur, maybe you're
Rod Santomassimo: Right, right.
Wes Schaeffer: Getting out there and hustle. They're afraid to admit they just don't know like you mean I can have somebody do my expenses. I can, I can have somebody on Ilana, you know, paying $5 an hour to book my traveling yes yes yes and yes
Rod Santomassimo: Yes, yes, yes. Why do you have a dry cleaner? Why do you have someone mow your lawn? Why do you have someone fix your car?
Rod Santomassimo: Mean, he's all basic things. They are yet we outsource those because it's cheaper than my time, right. You don't want to do it. And it's not the best use of your time.
Rod Santomassimo: So apply it to your business is the same exact thing. Why would I do my own books, are you crazy. I went, you're very well.
Rod Santomassimo: I live by a motto, and that has served me well extremely well is just because I can do something faster and better or just because I think I can.
Rod Santomassimo: It won't make me wealthier. It just won't. So why, for example, I am really good and it's not
Rod Santomassimo: It shouldn't beat my chest on this, but I'm really good at pivot tables and how boring is that I'm really good at Excel pivot tables.
Rod Santomassimo: I can analyze anything and look at the numbers and the trends and say, Okay, this is where we should go now. Is it worth my time?
Rod Santomassimo: Hell, no. I guess someone in India do that for me and give me, although the Google stats and Google studio data and all that stuff they do now.
Rod Santomassimo: And give me trends and tracks and pay them 20 bucks an hour, you know, that's the fat. So no, just because I'm doing better and faster. I will not get wealthier
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, but, man, I don't have the time I get so frustrated. I mean, how do I even train them, you know, how many this person oversees are different hours and I'm on planes and I got meetings. I don't have time to train somebody. I'm just gonna, I don't know. I'm just going to do it myself.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, actually outlined in my book this delegation checklist of what the steps you need to go through to
Rod Santomassimo: outsource to folks and no doubt if they're articulated clear vision, yet they articulate the exact steps and you like to set the expectations of what you want. And when you want it. Those are all essential obviously
Rod Santomassimo: But also you have to have extensions yourself what you're going to get from outsourcing. So for example, if you outsource to
Rod Santomassimo: The Philippines or India or China or wherever you outsource, you have to recognize the work they do will be sold to somebody else.
Rod Santomassimo: And this guy they over at that's going to happen you know it's going to happen. So what. So what I love. You gotta live in a world of abundance in my, in my mind,
Rod Santomassimo: Not scarcity. So look, if you restrict yourself thinking only I can do this. I also have been coached I've been conference so many people
Rod Santomassimo: You know and I and I'm proud of being coached because if I'm gonna be a coach. Hell, I better be coached
Rod Santomassimo: And I remember one comment in particular is a gentleman named Dan Sullivan, who runs an organization called Strategic Coach
Rod Santomassimo: And Dan. Dan is got a fantastic coaching model. But the one thing he says is, and I find this being this is probably the most powerful thing. I'm going to years to Dan years. And for me, the one thing I took away was this
Rod Santomassimo: Don't think about the how. Think about the who. It's always the who never the how. So you just said yourself well
Rod Santomassimo: How am I going to do this, I'm always on planes on this, how this how this
Rod Santomassimo: I just had a conversation for frankly last week, one of my sales guys who, by the way, is an independent contractor virtual, you know, not, not an employee.
Rod Santomassimo: But I said, look, this is why I think the company's going in 2020. So how you have to wait your job to figure that out. But more importantly, I'm suggesting you figure out who's gonna do it not. How so, Wes. In those cases, stop asking the question, how and ask the question, who
Wes Schaeffer: You know I love to who man.
Wes Schaeffer: Peter Townson
Rod Santomassimo: Heated Townson
Wes Schaeffer: smashing the guitar Gabriel right
Rod Santomassimo: What
Rod Santomassimo: Was that
Rod Santomassimo: No, it wasn't Peter Gabriel's period Townsend and the lead singer was oh, cheese and crackers. I'm getting old and I'm older than you.
Wes Schaeffer: I know, man. I'm forgetting all these
Rod Santomassimo: He's in Tommy. He was a star and Tommy
Rod Santomassimo: You hear me.
Wes Schaeffer: I remember the movie, but man, I can't like quote it
Rod Santomassimo: Robert Daltrey Daltrey
Rod Santomassimo: There we go. Okay, there you go. There you go. My daughter. Yeah. So yeah.
Rod Santomassimo: So continue to love us. Ooh.
Wes Schaeffer: Very nice. So
Wes Schaeffer: How do people make this change without hitting rock bottom because I've, you know, had over 400 interviews us I've spoken to a lot of people who
Wes Schaeffer: Their health failed their marriages fail day business is fair. I had to make a change, you know, and then it's up into the right
Wes Schaeffer: It's like, Man, why did you go to get so bad. Yeah, you know, are we just comfortable, like, you know, man. You know, I'm making 100 grand 200 grand just
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, my boss is a jerk. Yeah, travel, a bunch. Yeah, I don't seem to kids all that much. Yeah, I'm getting a little thicker around the midsection. But I'm making good money we drive a nice car. And oh, I don't want to really want to rock the boat.
Rod Santomassimo: Great, great question was and what we find is when people finally make a decision to invest themselves with us.
Rod Santomassimo: The pain has either gotten way too significant. So for example, we have three avatars three, three channels we sell to. And the biggest channel we sell to would be called them Peter plateau, also known as Peter feel stuck. Okay.
Rod Santomassimo: Let me tell you about Peter, because if you get you all need to know your audiences and describe that orange to a tee. So it's got the messaging go to that audience. That's right. But then we really talked about in the book.
Rod Santomassimo: Understanding your audience. So Peters between 35 and 60 days and doing this for 10 years or more, whatever he's doing or she's doing could be Paula Pato by all means.
Rod Santomassimo: But guess what, what got them here isn't getting forward and now they're their peers even younger peers are starting to pass them by. With this newfangled technology and approaches.
Rod Santomassimo: They're frustrated and can't get advocate. Yeah, they'll go buy a new set of golf clubs or new car and feel special.
Rod Santomassimo: That they know they'll never be a top producer ever again. Because what just can't figure it out. So what happens the pain so strong.
Rod Santomassimo: They realize I'm better I am have I have more experience but gosh start those kids are passing me by
Rod Santomassimo: True Story West one time, you know, back before I had this big team. I started by myself and 2008 Great Recession. No one was buying coaching and a 2008 you don't have money.
Rod Santomassimo: And so now 12 years later we have 40 folks and thousands of clients over the years now over 500 clients right now across North America.
Rod Santomassimo: But I should take calls and I to answer the call once a Peter plateau is on your license. So tell me why you're calling we know why you need to change his exact words were
Rod Santomassimo: Those damn kids are taking my market share. So why is it happened, why they may change your question, they get to the point where we realize
Rod Santomassimo: I've got to stop this, or they see such a beautiful value proposition that we try to articulate to show them as it could be a transformation.
Rod Santomassimo: They believe in themselves. So that's what we have to redefine from our side. But when somebody asked you, what do you find from your end, you know, you're coaching so many folks to greater heights. What makes them decide, you know, Wes. I need you.
Wes Schaeffer: Hey, man, I'm asking the questions here. Okay. You made me cry on my interview with you. All right, my God, I gotta get you to cry on this one. I turned around now.
Rod Santomassimo: If you read the book. If you read the book you the one magical thing you can do to make me cry.
Wes Schaeffer: I gotta hit pause, man. While I gather myself.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, it's, I mean, I asked the question because I'm still searching, right, because I see it's the old adage that it's easier to sell an aspirin than a vitamin.
Wes Schaeffer: Right. I mean, I, I'd like to help catch people before they hit rock bottom but
Wes Schaeffer: It's more times than not they maybe it's not truly rock bottom but like they've had a setback rarely do people come to me and say,
Wes Schaeffer: Hey man, I, I grew 20% last year and I'm frustrated could have been 30 or 50 can, can you help me get, you know, that's, I don't know, one out of 10 maybe right that that show and I think it's just human nature.
Wes Schaeffer: So I'm just always I'm trying to help counter human nature, I guess.
Rod Santomassimo: I can't agree more. That's, that's where we both are
Wes Schaeffer: You know, so it's because you see it and and and that kind of, you know, I'll beat myself up like I need a better messaging, I need a better
Wes Schaeffer: Stage right a bigger stage to get the word out to more people to
Wes Schaeffer: hopefully catch them earlier.
Wes Schaeffer: To, you know, to stop the rapid descent.
Wes Schaeffer: Get them going back up into the right
Rod Santomassimo: So I can. I don't know the sales guru citizen medicine says it's a general
Wes Schaeffer: It was probably me but
Rod Santomassimo: If I was you.
Rod Santomassimo: Like the community proof you need social proof you need data, right, you always types of mindsets to your audience. So when they're going to make a change and what they're going to do.
Rod Santomassimo: We use them all. We use a lot of social proof. No doubt about it a lot of community proof and a lot of data in everything we do with the Massimo group would it be LinkedIn ads Facebook ads.
Rod Santomassimo: Content organic and that seems to be the trigger is left and say, Hey, you know, I want to talk to you guys and no doubt.
Rod Santomassimo: Getting success stories of other folks we've had not saying hey we're great but look people saying we're great that resonates with people, as long as it's in the same avatar bucket. We found that to be helpful for us.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, yeah, you do have to
Wes Schaeffer: If I say it. I'm lying. If my clients say, then it's the truth. Yeah. I wonder if you're talking about like Robert Cialdini
Wes Schaeffer: Social proof community proof or was it somebody else.
Rod Santomassimo: It could be the psychology of selling was that
Wes Schaeffer: No, you're not a sales guy. He wrote persuasion.
Rod Santomassimo: Persuasion. Yes, it is. That's what it is. Yes, thank you.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, that sounds familiar.
Wes Schaeffer: Cool, so
Wes Schaeffer: So knowing isn't doing. I mean, so you Is this your first book that's not real estate specific or have you had others.
Rod Santomassimo: Now this is the first one outside the real estate commercial real estate world we have. We never actually playing the residential world.
Rod Santomassimo: But I'm after this 11 years of working with folks and getting folks outside of the commercial and asking us for help and realizing the pillars and principles we offer and implement with our clients are applicable to a wider audience. Mostly, no doubt, white-collar professionals.
Rod Santomassimo: We said, You know what, we have a methodology corny West, you know, then we do here is corny. We have the master mobile app. We have masa mojo mornings and
Rod Santomassimo: Have our Massimo methods. So these Moscow methods of how do you build out your sales plan, how do you build out your marketing plan. Hey, if I anything. Plan your human resource plan. We just laid it all out.
Rod Santomassimo: And people are asked me, like, Why the hell would you give most of your content away. It makes no sense from a business standpoint. So why is why can I do that.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, I've always said give away your best stuff for free upfront.
Rod Santomassimo: Well, it's because knowing isn't doing
Rod Santomassimo: Glad you guys know how to get to build your business, you're not going to do it. You're not going to do without help with people like Western myself to really go out and build your business.
Wes Schaeffer: It's true. I mean, you just show them the lay it out. Here's a secret formula. Here's the recipe.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, they won't do it.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, and I know some simulations may listen to
Rod Santomassimo: The marketing Maven of today. Gary van or check or Gary Dr. Chuck scares me. Gary Vee he gives everything away and I can tell you that because I've spent a day with Gary Vee and his team I invested in myself right figure out
Rod Santomassimo: The how to delegate to the who to create content and yeah he gives it all away but no one's going to do it. They need the person to who and Gary's case his team's the hoe and in your case, you're the who. The who, right. That's why we do it.
Wes Schaeffer: So you've got a thing here.
Wes Schaeffer: The presence pyramid.
Wes Schaeffer: Sounds interesting.
Wes Schaeffer: Are you just making stuff up man, or just stuff like legit.
Rod Santomassimo: Legit we, you know, I'm an angel. Like I said, I like pivot tables. I'm an angel guy. And so I
Rod Santomassimo: I know some my MBA days at Duke of what the hell happened, but I just love numbers and looking at numbers and seeing what works and what doesn't, making changes so
Rod Santomassimo: Part of our application to our clients is, of course, their personal presence back is their marketing department. So if you're an individual salesperson.
Rod Santomassimo: You have to have a personal marketing effort to get known in the marketplace. It makes your prospecting so much easier.
Rod Santomassimo: So we're looking at how do you create a presence. So if you think of a triangle and you put two horizontal lines to dissect that triangle.
Rod Santomassimo: And you have three pieces right near the top piece which is the smallest and that's your personal presence. The middle piece little bigger.
Rod Santomassimo: That's your physical presence tangible items mailers articles white papers postcards and the bottom piece much wider. That's your digital presence and we found was
Rod Santomassimo: Through a cadence of looking at what we can implement and those three networking functions lunches, you know, postcards down below. Then blogs blog tweets.
Rod Santomassimo: We found of course go up and down the pyramid. The higher you get, the more expensive absolutely more effective. The lower your get
Rod Santomassimo: Really cheap, we can do a free LinkedIn post any day. I want tweets and I want free much broader audience.
Rod Santomassimo: Each individual piece. So it's not as effective. However, what we found was, those that do two out of three.
Rod Santomassimo: Are doing okay but those do three of the three after all three pieces of presence.
Rod Santomassimo: They really start to see their market presence grow and their prospecting becomes easier and they can be no more as a trusted advisor, whether you're doing insurance entering financial advisory real estate.
Rod Santomassimo: Medical sales massage therapy. I know what you're doing. But it doesn't matter. You gotta have a presence.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah page 120 right
Rod Santomassimo: 120 wow hold off I've edited that but since then. So let's say it's in the
Wes Schaeffer: It's in the book. Well, my version's page 120 so and you give us assignments and stuff. And these things like practical. I mean, it's not hype.
Wes Schaeffer: I've mentioned to your the Massimo matrix. Can you give us in your own words. The Massimo matrix.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, you look at when you talk to a decision-maker and you focus just on the decision-maker.
Rod Santomassimo: You're really missing the boat, you just are because the decision-maker him or herself are influenced by so many other people and you have to understand what their perspectives are
Rod Santomassimo: In order to truly articulate and tell that decision-maker. Hey, I understand you. I can walk in your shoes. I know you are. And therefore, you build this level of trust and likeability
Rod Santomassimo: So we did in the Muslim nations was that's a basic decision matrix for breaking down the certain roles people play in a buying decision so
Rod Santomassimo: Who the decision-makers are who their influences are and then the issues they're facing for a given situation. I think in the book example of someone this investor who owns a commercial property and the things he looks at buying or selling or a sale-leaseback or refinance as issues.
Rod Santomassimo: And then he himself as a decision-maker. He has a partner decision-maker, but he also has those his wife and his kids will impact and influence them has attorney.
Rod Santomassimo: And you when you break that down, look at each individual box that as a interact. There we go. Sorry, as a
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, interact with each other, then you say, women, what's the impact for each decision-maker each shareholder each role for each issue. And if you could do all that we show you how in the book.
Rod Santomassimo: You do a couple of things. First, you can articulate very well what's going on. But second, I really got me excited when I figured this out was oh
Rod Santomassimo: Crap, now I can start building marketing material around these issues to attract this decision maker to talk to me. And that's, I really that that's why I love the matrix. It's really, it's the first step in creating a marketing campaign around your messaging.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, I love it. I've, I've shared it with my coaching clients on my weekly calls
Wes Schaeffer: Because of its simplicity, but its effectiveness, because
Wes Schaeffer: All these years I have found maybe a handful of people that actually enjoy writing and are good at it. Right, right. And so having that matrix.
Wes Schaeffer: You know who you're dealing with, you know, shareholders are stakeholders, you know. All right, CEO okay I'm selling TO, YOU KNOW IT services. So I can see yo well the director of it has a different issue.
Wes Schaeffer: Right. So as I real as I map that out, you know, if I map out five people and five issues. Well, there's 25 different
Wes Schaeffer: Concerns potential headlines talking points.
Wes Schaeffer: And, you know, add one more to that matrix, you know, you're quickly at 30 even 40 well, all of a sudden, you got a year's worth of content.
Wes Schaeffer: That you can start building out at least you're not staring at a blank screen right when I share that with my clients are like, holy crap. You know, now they
Wes Schaeffer: I see them a little spark, like, Okay, I can do this, you know. Now, it may be daunting right if I have five by five at oh my gosh I go right 25 articles like
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, maybe. But you probably have you probably sent 25 emails.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Subject over you
Rod Santomassimo: Know the answer. No we're not. We're not asking again this is the point.
Rod Santomassimo: We're not asking you to write 25 articles, you've now create the content, the headlines go west ran through our call today. So I'm being
Rod Santomassimo: honest with you after our call today. I'm sitting down with a copywriting organization to offer to my team marker of our clients because they don't want to write articles, either. I get that.
Wes Schaeffer: Right.
Rod Santomassimo: Is that goes back to don't think how think who right and so look all your clients West, a matter of making $100,000 or a million dollars or 10 $15 million brother, making
Rod Santomassimo: They're making at least 200 more dollars an hour and it comes right down to it, they are whether they agree or not they are and maybe it's just me a lower-paying. Are you in our lower volume clients are making maybe $60 an hour at the very lowest
Rod Santomassimo: You go out and you start spending that time at 20 bucks an hour 15 bucks an hour. Somebody else they can leverage the margin, but you have created in your life.
Rod Santomassimo: But having better people do things are better than you can them done.
Rod Santomassimo: A better product, but then you turn around you, you leverage. It's just, it's, it's the way you have to look at things and say, I can't afford it. Then I can't afford it, you back into being a hobby. Again, you're a business. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, and even if, you know, initially you may get a junk product at first.
Rod Santomassimo: Sure.
Wes Schaeffer: But you're going to dial it in, you know, it's the old adage right anything worth doing is worth doing poorly.
Rod Santomassimo: So, yes.
Rod Santomassimo: You know,
Wes Schaeffer: And you'll get it dialed in. What do they say like, like your first is your worst well
Rod Santomassimo: We share a story. I don't share a story in the book. So I'll share it again. My greatest mistake. So that's a great segue. Right, so it's it's
Rod Santomassimo: Totally absolutely true story. It sounds BS. I know it. This is absolutely true.
Rod Santomassimo: When I start out by my game by myself 2008 Great Recession. No one's buying any coaching because no one has any money.
Rod Santomassimo: So I say I'm going to find 1000 people, which I did through by using back then, he lands. Now up work than 1000 people with a helper guy in the Philippines to send an email out
Rod Santomassimo: Create my first thing I did it myself and PowerPoint. I created a stupid slide with this. This is arch going up. And so if you hire the Massimo group.
Rod Santomassimo: Your practice will soar right being an Air Force sky west you would love that. Right. You just met soaring through the sky.
Rod Santomassimo: So, so I send it out to 1000 people I include my dad God rest his soul. I could my dad and and
Rod Santomassimo: He writes, he calls me up and he says it's within two minutes me saying it's email out. I'm so proud of.
Rod Santomassimo: It says hey rocket which was my nickname in college. I put the cross
Rod Santomassimo: Hey rocket, you may want to bring back that ad and I said that two things. Number one, it's beautiful and don't worry about it. And number two, I can't recall an email, it's not. You can't do that. That didn't realize that.
Rod Santomassimo: I said, What's wrong, he goes nation reread your ad. So what I did was, was I in big letters, if you hire the Massimo group your practice will soar. So you are, which of course is sour. So God honest truth that was my first ad launching this company 12 years ago.
Rod Santomassimo: So you can screw up and still check
Wes Schaeffer: So other than your dad, who else replied.
Rod Santomassimo: Well, that's the West. That's the funny thing I did have email saying
Rod Santomassimo: You're a jackass. And then people said right to me. You're a jackass. Look, look, look at you wrote, you idiot. I mean, people were cruel back 10 and 20,000 as they are today an email versus Facebook but some people to my shock, where he run. I like to talk to you.
Rod Santomassimo: Okay.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, it shows that a lot of people cannot spell it shows they maybe can't read. But it shows also maybe they're forgiving.
Rod Santomassimo: Yes, or maybe the business was so good, they actually wanted the business. Our for some reason. And today, I'll call rod.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, hey, I do my best. Proofreading in the 18 nanoseconds between hitting send and like you can skim one quick time
Rod Santomassimo: Right.
Wes Schaeffer: That's hey I can read war and peace in the mom that I hit send. Oh.
Wes Schaeffer: And it doesn't matter, too. I like on a big email, I'll send it to myself eight or 10 times
Wes Schaeffer: We get to, we get to we get, I mean may take me a couple of days, sometimes to get it where I want it and yeah typo.
Rod Santomassimo: Yep. Oh, you're gonna
Rod Santomassimo: Hey, we had you read the book and I sent to one more person to read before I before we bought to print it for about the printed she sends me 10 pages of edits and guess what every single one was asked was actually correct. How could that be
Wes Schaeffer: A little bit of a grammar nazi you know I ran across a couple. Well, I figured, you know what you got good people you'll find them.
Rod Santomassimo: Yeah, they found them. So second editing team this were to happen to the writing book. Another edit another edit. But yeah, so so you can screw up to still move forward. You can, yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: So, man. So, your book is well when people listen to this, it'll be out, but it's a late March, you're hoping
Rod Santomassimo: Late March will have it out it will even do a two-step launch at this point in time or one big launch. We're not quite sure we know this week passes recording this.
Rod Santomassimo: You know, I do if FSU wins. We'll get it out in March, it tells you loses. We won't put it out until 2050 56 this one when you're over there.
Wes Schaeffer: I'm just deleting that whole last statement.
Wes Schaeffer: This is our year baby.
Rod Santomassimo: Is the year, the year
Wes Schaeffer: I'm already scared about next year to Joe borrow graduates. I'm going. How do you replace that dude?
Rod Santomassimo: Do you even think about next year, at this point in time.
Wes Schaeffer: You know what's crazy. So I always talk with people about this. Yeah, I tell them, you know, a sales manager's number one job is to recruit. Yes, yes.
Wes Schaeffer: And it kind of gets them thinking a little bit different. And I'll use sports, you know, all the time. I look at Nick Saban look at Davos Sweeney, you know, so excellent look like it's a day. Right, so
Wes Schaeffer: Let's say, hopefully, I'll she wins, right and five years from now say, when did LSU win you know the championship and then dog January 30 2020 like well
Rod Santomassimo: No be
Wes Schaeffer: But you know Joe Burrough, he's a fifth-year senior writer actually a grad student. The transfer. Oh yeah, he's a transfer. So technically they want it to two and a half years ago when they recruited him.
Wes Schaeffer: Right. They and I'll take him back like okay so let's say let's say he's a fifth-year senior say you came in on day one, or you know any of your superstars it stays five years.
Wes Schaeffer: So, five years ago, they started but you can start recruiting kids out of, out of high school today. I think you can send them letters, the sophomore, you can speak to them as a junior
Rod Santomassimo: Junior Yep.
Wes Schaeffer: Seven years before seven and a half years before they play the title game as a fifth-year senior
Wes Schaeffer: You've got to have your, your outreach going on because these coaches do their like their went in their bowls and they're literally like
Wes Schaeffer: In a kid's home the next day you know unless you played in Atlanta right for the SEC championship. I guarantee you, he was the head coach, they were on the phone or meeting with players. The next day,
Rod Santomassimo: I mean it's relentless man people
Wes Schaeffer: Don't realize, so
Wes Schaeffer: You know, have that kind of recruiting mindset, right. And again, it's hard. You gotta who does it. Who, who not hell.
Rod Santomassimo: It's not, it's not to how it so
Wes Schaeffer: Right.
Rod Santomassimo: Here we not have a Dan Sullivan of beautiful concept which is easy, right, Robert Daltrey there who do think that way. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: So, to where we sent me. We got a website for this fancy
Rod Santomassimo: You could go to the book will be out at Knowing Isn't Doing a know what posture, you know, knowingisntdoing.com. Absolutely.
Rod Santomassimo: And if they want more information on the Massimo group just go to Moscow ma si, si mo. That's M A SS io dot coach Massimo coach and that's one of the more about what we do.
Wes Schaeffer: Sounds good. I will link to that I've got those pulled up here. Very cool. All right. Ron go. Tigers, man.
Rod Santomassimo: That show tyros been
Rod Santomassimo: Great. Okay guys, thank you so much.
Wes Schaeffer: Have a great day.
Rod Santomassimo: Take care.