Wes Schaeffer: Rob stag know all the way from Hartford, you're going to help us make better sales through better data. Right. Welcome to the sales podcast, man.
Rob Ristagno: That's great to be here.
Wes Schaeffer: No, go. So the salespeople really need data. I mean, look, we got a good bourbon collection, we got some jokes you know we're quick on our feet isn't data, kind of a, I don't know, overrated.
Rob Ristagno: Well, as you know, the official nerd on this interview here.
Rob Ristagno: I'm going to say that
Rob Ristagno: I'm really excited about convincing people to use data, even though it might sound kind of
Rob Ristagno: geeky or scary or whatever. I think that you'll know exactly what bourbon to offer and exactly what to say to build those relationships. If you take a look at your data and it doesn't have to be hard.
Wes Schaeffer: Well that's good because I've seen it.
Wes Schaeffer: I've seen both ends of the spectrum when we get into data when we get into doing a bunch of research, you know, I've had a lot of obviously sales trainers on
Wes Schaeffer: cold calling guys saying, oh, there's no more cold calling, just do your research and you'll know what to say. That's like, I agree.
Wes Schaeffer: But then you end up with salespeople that are just professional researchers, right, so hey what are you doing, oh, I'm doing my research before I make my calls. And I'm like, pick up the phone right so
Wes Schaeffer: So either they overanalyze, or they don't analyze it only just wing it. So how do we find that happy medium?
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, what we advocated, I agree with you. Let's, let's start by winging it. Let's not hide behind three months of research or spending 7.5 out of eight hours a day.
Rob Ristagno: looking up stuff in the name of doing my homework.
Rob Ristagno: Get out and try some stuff but track what you're doing and see what's working and what's not working. And then you can analyze it and look for the trends so that that's a way to kind of split the difference with the conundrum that you mentioned.
Rob Ristagno: Just get out there measure with what you're doing. See what's working, what's not doing, and then rely on the data to figure out how you spend your time going forward.
Wes Schaeffer: So when you're talking about research and data, are you more inwardly focused, like, what, what's the staff doing versus outwardly like analyzing the marketplace building your buyer persona and things like that. Are you doing a little bit of both?
Rob Ristagno: We think both are very, very important. I would start with externally looking. And I think that if I could leave everyone with one thing is that
Rob Ristagno: Look at the data to figure out who your best customers are and who your worst customers are do a segmentation.
Rob Ristagno: Because 100% of the time, I'm not. I try not to say 100% of the time, but it's true 100% of the time when we work with the client, we find that
Rob Ristagno: They're spending just as much of their sales team time just as much of their marketing dollars on the poor segments as the attractive segments.
Rob Ristagno: And and just we call the tractor segments. Your whales and we call the people that are sucking all your resources. Your Barnacles and just stopping paying attention to your Barnacles and reinvesting that time into your whales, you're going to see huge spike in your sales.
Wes Schaeffer: Well, I've always said, you know, the old adage is eat the rabbits while you hunt the elephants.
Wes Schaeffer: Right, because I mean the whales are fantastic, but they can take three months. It could take three years to land right. How do you balance that? How does a company, you know, bring in the short term revenue while they go after those whales?
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, I think it's, you can multiple flavors of whales, and I think one caution is by well I don't necessarily mean the biggest account. It might be your biggest account.
Rob Ristagno: But will you define Wales as your most enthusiastic and engage the type of customer that was the one that it's easiest to sell to. It's easiest to keep happy and around for a long time.
Rob Ristagno: Easiest to convince them to tell their friends all about you.
Rob Ristagno: So, I do agree with having multiple types of whales to focus on. So you have a diversified approach and you're not waiting only for the big
Rob Ristagno: You know, geez, Coca Cola is of the world to buy your product, your kind of diversifying and you'll have some big companies and medium companies or yeah just different types of ways to look at
Wes Schaeffer: You know, man. Look, I don't want split hairs, but I would call them dolphins right they're happy. They're
Wes Schaeffer: Enthusiastic No. All right, so if you reference dolphins. Right. I want some credit for that.
Rob Ristagno: All right, I'll give you five cents. Every time I say dolphin.
Wes Schaeffer: All right. Very nice. And this is recorded, so this has been sent to my attorneys right now live stream.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, I mean, that's a good point because we do want the happy ones, right, we do want them engaged.
Wes Schaeffer: And it took me a long time to learn this myself where I was very much I'd like I love the thrill of the chase, right, the hot
Wes Schaeffer: The Kill You know, throw the meat over the fence to just go get another one right. I didn't want to service repeat sales like whatever, yes, you're fine. Like I just I want to go kill something right
Wes Schaeffer: But then, over time, like you realize, man, that's second and third, and the fifth sale from that same customer. Sure. It's nice, you know, so start planning ahead of time. Right, so how
Wes Schaeffer: How is that a different approach. You know, going after the long term relationship versus just trying to close every deal you know it with anyone that can fog a mirror. Yeah.
Rob Ristagno: No, I mean it is tough it is. Let's, let's be honest, it's way more exciting to land a new customer, especially a big new customer
Rob Ristagno: But it's six to seven times easier. Every metric you look at to keep an existing customer around longer upsell cross-sell retain them.
Rob Ristagno: Than the other way around. So as part of diversifying your portfolio. What you're focusing on a big chunk should be on retaining upsell and cross-selling your existing customers.
Rob Ristagno: Chances are they already know you, chances are they already like you and make your job much easier.
Rob Ristagno: In the long run, and then yeah, if you needed to both again. But we often see another opportunity. It's focused on doing more with your existing clients, rather than worrying about getting more one
Rob Ristagno: More especially in this environment where it's really tough with no no no conferences, no trade shows, you know, face to face meetings.
Rob Ristagno: It's really tough to build relationships with people over zoom
Rob Ristagno: Every everyone's making the most of it, but the best place to start is with people who already know you who you already have a relationship with
Wes Schaeffer: Should
Wes Schaeffer: Should that customer be handed over to like an inside rep or support rep, you know, versus. I mean, it's a different skill set to knock on doors and land new accounts versus servicing.
Wes Schaeffer: But then again, I mean, if you get a big account like a Coca Cola right there's 20 different you know 100 different verticals or departments that you could still go after. So how do you divvy that up, right landing new accounts versus maintaining and growing them? Yeah.
Rob Ristagno: It depends a lot on the nature of your organization. But I would say that the important thing, whether you have one person maintain the relationship forever.
Rob Ristagno: Or handoff. Make sure that the customers on board with that handoff phase. So, so classic criticism, I'll just use the consulting industry a classic criticism of the consulting industry is you have
Rob Ristagno: The Rainmaker who comes in and gets it gets everyone excited about the project and then the client signs the deal. And then that person disappears, and then you're stuck with someone you never met.
Rob Ristagno: And that may or may not work out. So I think that the initial salesperson should be involved in some way, shape, or form to keep that relationship going
Rob Ristagno: But it's okay if a majority, you know, majority of the work is done by a different team, someone who's more skilled at farming rather than hunting.
Rob Ristagno: Not a problem to have a handoff and in transition. And it's all about taking a look at what everyone on your team is is absolutely the best staff.
Rob Ristagno: But not forgetting that it also matters what the customer actually wants, and they don't like this bump and run approach. Typically, so
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, that's
Rob Ristagno: That's
Wes Schaeffer: What should that initial salesperson at least
Wes Schaeffer: I don't know, be involved in a quarterly review or, you know, show I'm picking the lunch every now and then just to maintain that relationship like how
Rob Ristagno: Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: How formal, how official, how technical should that relationship be
Rob Ristagno: I think
Rob Ristagno: You're actually I err on the side of being informal, just kind of almost like
Rob Ristagno: Hey, just checking in on your personally really enjoyed getting to know you as the project going and anything that anything I get done. Or how's the product doing has a service doing
Rob Ristagno: Anything I can kind of pull some strings on behind the curtains here to help help you out.
Rob Ristagno: So I think that would be good enough. Yeah. If there's a big quarterly business review with some key stakeholders or an annual review with some major players at the client-side of the customer side. And yes, it would be great for that for the salesperson to show up.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, because it's um
Wes Schaeffer: You know, relationships are key.
Wes Schaeffer: But
Wes Schaeffer: There are, I mean, there's a lot of knucklehead sales be
Wes Schaeffer: That that can ruin things, actually. But, I mean, I know it's hard to put it on a, like a broad brush, but I do like that approach of
Wes Schaeffer: Keeping it informal because obviously, if you did the right thing and it's a good sale, and the client is benefiting, you know they should be happy to talk with you.
Wes Schaeffer: And
Wes Schaeffer: You should be able to grow that business.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, right. So, but should that salesperson. Should they be like talking to that main person that they sold or maybe going more vertical going more horizontal, you know, like, how, how do they know when it's okay to maybe go to another division?
Wes Schaeffer: To try to broaden the account. Yeah, yeah.
Rob Ristagno: I would say
Rob Ristagno: Pull the string. I guess I would say to start with who you sold to
Rob Ristagno: You know, primarily, you're working on investing in the relationship. But, secondarily, you should also be listening for other pain points that that customer has
Rob Ristagno: Either within his or her own department or other people within you know other departments in the organization.
Rob Ristagno: And just try to be helpful. I mean, this is classic consultative selling one on one here, but when you hear a pain point. Pull, pull the string and say, Hey, oh, you know what, actually I'll make sure the team can help you with that or
Rob Ristagno: Or that's not something that are the product that you have solved, but we do have this other portfolio or a sounds like your colleague and department next need some help. I'm happy to just to jump on the phone as a friend and share with some of the stuff we're saying
Rob Ristagno: So use those interactions, not only to keep the relationship strong but also to look for some seeds to plant.
Wes Schaeffer: So would that initial that original salesperson maybe still be the team lead on an account.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, because you make the sale now you're going to fulfill it may be your onboarding a big technical team, and they're doing the installation implementation, the upgrading the training, blah, blah, blah.
Wes Schaeffer: Should that salesperson be that ongoing quarterback or
Wes Schaeffer: Is it better to have like a project manager and that salesperson almost take a back seat, you know, how do you balance that like, Who's Who owns that account.
Rob Ristagno: Yes, and it gets tricky. I would say the salesperson should own the relationship, but it's not the best use of sales people's time to be project managing, so delivery should be a different team.
Rob Ristagno: They should be tied at the hip. But delivery. Yeah, there's different skill sets there, of course of Product Management versus salespeople and but the people are good at project management.
Rob Ristagno: Manage the delivery well sales is always overseeing the relationship and make sure they're satisfied and providing feedback internally when things look like they may be going off the rail.
Wes Schaeffer: So what's happening in this
Wes Schaeffer: global pandemic, man. It's we're exactly halfway through the year.
Wes Schaeffer: I see a hard rain coming
Wes Schaeffer: You know, airlines going to be laying off 70 500,000 people big banks laying off 70 500,000 people I'm saying, you know, the number of big bankruptcies are talking about are going to come close to the great recession of oh eight or nine
Wes Schaeffer: The PPP loans are running out. Right. It's all these companies they're holding on to their people just long enough, they don't the pay the money back, and then they're cutting. I mean, we
Wes Schaeffer: Got elections. Regardless, who wins the election. I think there's going to be protests and riots. I mean, what the hell. What do we do, man? Should we just hunker down
Rob Ristagno: I mean it's, it is tempting to hunker down and say,
Rob Ristagno: 2000 22,021 is cancelled.
Rob Ristagno: So you see you later. But I think actually that pervasive mindset is actually an opportunity for people who don't believe in that. That way of moving forward.
Rob Ristagno: And and what we've we've found is that every company has pockets of opportunity now, no matter how bad things look and so companies that can figure out look
Rob Ristagno: It's not blanket across the board terrible for us. Where are some places where we can still win were some places where a competitor sleeping, whereas there's something that are offering our messaging can be tweaked for the current tim
Rob Ristagno: And those companies that move forward there.
Rob Ristagno: Will come out leaner meaner than ever before. Well, they still have to do layoffs. Unfortunately, probably yes. Well, they will their sales go down, you know, relative than what they were doing. Quite possibly, but
Rob Ristagno: They're going to be setting the stage for having a much stronger, more rapid recovery reinvention whatever are. Where do you want to use after things after the vaccine is available after some of the,
Rob Ristagno: Political, you know the elections over
Rob Ristagno: Etc. So
Rob Ristagno: Keep keep charging had it looks at those pockets of opportunity. Stay positive, rather than thinking this whole thing is going to sink your entire business.
Wes Schaeffer: Can companies figure this out on their own, you know, or should they bring in an outsider.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, for a fresh set of eyes. I mean,
Rob Ristagno: Inertia is really tough. So I, you know, I'm a big fan of bringing in people from the outside.
Rob Ristagno: It's really tough to let go of what's working and what has worked in the past and, you know, we've done a lot of work, a lot of our clients are in the media space and
Rob Ristagno: That that industry, as you probably know, has been hit really hard because selling print advertisements for 50 years was a way to make a huge windfall, and people were
Rob Ristagno: Made millionaires and billionaires off of that business model. And that doesn't work anymore. And I would say it took the industry. A good 20 years to get that message.
Rob Ristagno: So we don't have 20 years of runway right now. So get the message when you see your business has been disrupted yet. You can't keep doing things the same way and expect to get the same results.
Rob Ristagno: You're going to get worse results. So bringing out and bringing on an outsider helps you actually, you know, break down that tunnel vision, break through the inertia, that's really going to be sinking. A lot of companies that don't want to change, you know,
Wes Schaeffer: Tell me about your book that years behind you right
Wes Schaeffer: A member is worth 1000 visitors, a proven method for making more money.
Wes Schaeffer: Online. What's up with that. Yeah.
Rob Ristagno: I mean, the punch line is all about quality over quantity of customers. Yes, more customers all else equal is better.
Rob Ristagno: But companies can grow more sustainably more predictably if they focus on their very best customers make them feel like a member, a true member, you know, think about if you join a member of a sports club or a country club or
Rob Ristagno: An art institution, just think about how proud you are to be a member
Rob Ristagno: And and businesses should be thinking about, hey, we don't have customers. We have members, and we want to have deep quality relationships with them so that they
Rob Ristagno: Not only buy from us more often and stick around longer, but they become our sales and marketing force, and they're out talking about us and getting other people to join the club.
Rob Ristagno: And so yeah, the book goes into five things to take a look at to make sure that you're following this new way of growing your business.
Wes Schaeffer: So when you say member, though, are you, are you referring like to the classical membership site or just like more like, Oh, you're a member of our family and just treating your customer better
Rob Ristagno: Yes, to both of those directly. I think there's a huge opportunity for people to build membership programs.
Rob Ristagno: In almost any industry, you know, you saw media. Media has been doing that a lot. As you know, we, unfortunately, have hit a paywall
Rob Ristagno: But I mean it's necessarily business model for the industry. This is to survive.
Rob Ristagno: So media companies have been doing a lot with memberships you're looking at a lot of in the consumer space a lot of
Rob Ristagno: Boxes, you know, like Blue Apron and things where you get a monthly shipment every, every month or every week or whatever it is.
Rob Ristagno: B2B starting to get into it with replenishment and services so that you can keep members around happier. Make sure they're using your product better and really getting the value out of being a customer. So, it's
Rob Ristagno: It could literally be a membership, but conceptually if for whatever reason you're not
Rob Ristagno: Equipped to launch it, and a literal membership. It's a whole concept of community and convenience coming together and making people feel like they're getting something out of, out of
Rob Ristagno: Out of being a customer of yours that they're getting access to some experts at good feeling access to special services and features and products and just, you know, you want to make them feel special and like they're part of a team, not just a transaction.
Wes Schaeffer: And so
Wes Schaeffer: Should it be like a true subscription, you know, a membership model. It's like, all right, you know, I
Wes Schaeffer: I'd so I don't know what we're getting our kitchen cabinets redone. I mean, what he all for, like, and I know you typically work with bigger businesses but
Wes Schaeffer: You know, even though this is a contractor. I mean, there's big firms that do you know general contractors that do remodeling and whatnot. Should they offer like a
Wes Schaeffer: I don't know warranty service or every six months will come in, you know, wipe them down oil, um, you know, adjust your hinges. I mean, something like something is rudimentary is that
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, I mean, that's a great idea just kind of, Hey, thank you for for for us an awesome. We're going to come back, you know in cabinet case come back as you say you every
Rob Ristagno: Every six months to do an inspection and if anything gets nectar chipped, we're gonna fix it up for you. And we're going to replace the hardware every three years, or you know whatever the knobs will get you know a little loose or whatever. We're going to tighten them up.
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, I think that's just ancillary revenue and the division of labor, the main people who come and install the candidates don't have to be the ones coming back and polishing and cleaning. You can find a different
Rob Ristagno: pool of people to do that at a probably low, lower wage and make a nice little profit for the company. It's all incremental or so.
Wes Schaeffer: Give us an example of like a bigger company that you help do something kind of get into that membership mindset.
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, so where
Rob Ristagno: We have, we have a client in the homebrewing space.
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, and you know, they, you know, they publish a lot of great content about home brewing and had some events and
Rob Ristagno: You know, we really helped them get into the e-commerce game where they can actually build a membership program online.
Rob Ristagno: That allows members to get access to their archives of content they can search, search the archives of content as if it's like Googling anything
Rob Ristagno: About home brewing and I'll you know this is a very technical, scientific field.
Rob Ristagno: So you can't just Google something in general and expect to get a good, reliable answer. There's lots of people with
Rob Ristagno: Opinions online, but if you want the authoritative answer, you come to this enjoying this membership, and there's monthly get togethers online. There's, there's an expansion of events or special discounts on events.
Rob Ristagno: So it's really a great opportunity to bring together this community that has been seeking answers to lots of technical questions.
Rob Ristagno: And now you bring them all together in one place and they can talk to each other and get access to to the gurus in the space and, of course, have reliable information that they can search as a member
Wes Schaeffer: Is there a model you've seen that works better than others, like a $1 trial or, you know, free trial with automatic
Wes Schaeffer: You know enrollment or throw in the membership as a bonus, you know with an order now or
Rob Ristagno: Like that. Yeah. In general, the rule is
Rob Ristagno: Show Not Tell how great your product is. And there's lots of different ways to Show Not Tell how great your product is
Rob Ristagno: You rattle off a lot of the most common ones. You could do a free trial, you could just have a free version that you had to upgrade for some paid features.
Rob Ristagno: You could just have lots of great content and information out there to demonstrate how great your stuff is you have demos. Like, it depends a lot on what your product is
Rob Ristagno: But I think get the customer to really understand what they're going to get what value, they're going to get out of using your product or service before you ask for the full sail.
Rob Ristagno: And I think you're gonna get a lot more commitment you want. I would just say one little asterisks on that though is you want some commitment from the customer because you don't want to waste your time with lots of looky Loos who are just going to
Rob Ristagno: You know, I know. When Disney plus came out, everyone signed up for the seven-day free trial and watch the movies and cancel, you know,
Rob Ristagno: You have to, you know, it's a funnel. And yet, some people converted and but think about ways to get a little bit of commitment from people at least require them to plunk down a credit card.
Rob Ristagno: So there's some commitment there be ethical though allow them to cancel easily don't kind of trick them into subscribing, but you want a little bit of a hurdle to have the customer has some skin in the game as well.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, so like, I'm not familiar with Disney.
Wes Schaeffer: Would assume they got the credit card info upfront, right, or was it
Wes Schaeffer: You know,
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, I assume they did as well. I know, though they stopped giving away free trials because I think they're, they weren't happy with the
Rob Ristagno: Number of people coming in and just kind of
Rob Ristagno: Watching one or two shows on their free trial and canceling, I assume you're right. I assume they would have asked for credit cards.
Wes Schaeffer: I mean, funny thing. Well, we joined. I joined just for the
Wes Schaeffer: Head. What was the little baby Yoda.
Wes Schaeffer: The Mandalorian.
Wes Schaeffer: So I'm still a kid at heart, and I still have seven kids. So, you know, they like Disney as well.
Wes Schaeffer: Hey, you're gonna go just as a good price.
Wes Schaeffer: But the
Wes Schaeffer: You know, on, on the gated info and all I got. I get all these links right friends will share something up. It's a New York Times. Oh. Business Insider. Oh, I've already had my three free views. I'm like,
Wes Schaeffer: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna join. I'm not gonna pay the New York Times I just don't read it enough.
Wes Schaeffer: You know, so I guess it's
Wes Schaeffer: All the info in the data, right, just try it and see what happens because they're losing me and
Wes Schaeffer: I could be I some eyeballs that maybe click on an ad, they would generate some revenue, but I guess, is it just a little bit of trial and error to see
Wes Schaeffer: Do we do it gated and do less ads or do we do, you know, free and a whole bunch of it because on the flip side, right, there's some websites I don't go to anymore.
Wes Schaeffer: Because you go there and it's a pop up at the top, you know, it's a hello bar. It's a pop up. It's a thing in the footer, and it's crammed with ads, and I mean I have to use like the safari reader.
Wes Schaeffer: Just to see that damn content. So, I mean, there's always examples of taking either one too far, but it just test and measure and see which way really works.
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, I think that's the best way to solve that problem is with data. And I would say come up with dynamic paywall rules. So don't. I think, you know, people started with X number of articles free
Rob Ristagno: Because that was easy to implement, and technology supported that you can get way more sophisticated now.
Rob Ristagno: So I think what happened was a lot of people figured out how to game the paywall while you may remember, a year or two ago, you could just
Rob Ristagno: Go in incognito mode on your browser and sneak in and get one click for free. And then just kind of refresh your browser whatever get another one.
Rob Ristagno: publishers have gotten wise to that. But my opinion is, some of them may be over course corrected.
Rob Ristagno: Everyone hates getting ripped off by the barnacles that I referred to earlier. But what you're doing is you're scaring away some of the would be whales or would be dolphins. I will be five cents.
Rob Ristagno: Because you're being a little too stingy. I mean, what drives me crazy if I'm
Rob Ristagno: Sharing something with a friend. I want them to be able to open it. I'm basically giving you free marketing. I'm giving you free word of mouth. And if I send you a link. Hey, this is really interesting. I think you'd like it.
Rob Ristagno: And I'm a subscriber or member I really feel like you should be able to look at that, because otherwise the media company, the publisher.
Rob Ristagno: Is losing an opportunity to, you know, we're probably like-minded. If I'm sharing with you, you might be interested you might see that one article and see something at the bottom. You might sign up for them, they're
Rob Ristagno: A white paper or a newsletter or, at least, click on an ad or something. So I think
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, use the data.
Rob Ristagno: Be a little bit more creative with the business rules. Don't go for the hard one article to Article three articles just kind of depending on where they're coming from, who sent them. They're what they're clicking on what they've done in the last 30 days.
Rob Ristagno: Come up with a with a more creative, sophisticated way to determine your paywall rules.
Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes that's hard but
Wes Schaeffer: That's when they bring in smart people like you. Right.
Rob Ristagno: I said I was a nerd. I never claimed to be smart.
Wes Schaeffer: Come on, man. If you're nerd and intelligence that go there simultaneous man, it's redundant to say a smart nerd. Come on.
Rob Ristagno: All right, all right. You're right. It's like ATM machine, I guess.
Wes Schaeffer: Very nice. Alright, so where do people go to learn more about you right you have Sterling Woods is your
Wes Schaeffer: Your agency right
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, come to Sterling what's com check us out. We have free growth assessment. So it's 11 questions to come to our website answer these 11 questions and you'll get a customized report in real time with some specific ideas on how you can grow your business today.
Wes Schaeffer: And is there a paywall man is or pop-ups are you gonna be
Wes Schaeffer: tracking me overwhelm
Rob Ristagno: There no paywalls on our site as of this recording
Wes Schaeffer: Very know like the little disclaimer. Yeah.
Wes Schaeffer: Plans. I know, because you're kind of nerdy that way, man.
Rob Ristagno: I didn't get a penny disclaimers on a five cents. I think I'm going to be regretting that see it in your eyes, man.
Wes Schaeffer: Oh, very nice. Well, the coven cough is coming back. So we're right on time, man. I'm gonna get some coffee. Get a cough drop. Get back on it, but, um, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show, man.
Rob Ristagno: Yeah, thanks. It was a pleasure.
Wes Schaeffer: And I found early Sterling woods calm, get your free growth assessment get his book members worth 1000 visitors a proven method for making more money online, and we won't even tease them with the five, I have to get the book to find those five reasons.
Wes Schaeffer: Cool, man. All right, Rob. Thanks for coming on show. Have a great day.
Rob Ristagno: Take care everyone.